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Old September 23rd, 2013, 06:45 PM   #1
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IRS / tea-party scandal ~ obama brainchild

So let's review what happened, because the news has long since shuffled this to the circular file:

Quote:
IRS staffers had singled out conservative organizations with "tea party" or "patriots" in their name that were seeking tax-exempt nonprofit status, subjecting them to extra scrutiny to see if they were abusing the tax law as it relates to political activity. They grilled these conservative groups about their members, their donors, their public statements, and who they employed. And there is no evidence yet that the IRS systemically treated non-conservative groups with the same level of attention.
The IRS Tea Party Scandal, Explained | Mother Jones

why was it done? well in short, obama and team realize that this is their enemy and were poised to strike. an all front attack was needed and conceptualized. divert attention away (see occupy thread) and scare the opposition to "shut up" by flexing some political muscle.

stated off-line and behind closed doors between o-team reps and liberal IRS higher up, Lerner (appointed by Obama), it was voiced that she would be doing a service for country by sussing out enemies of the O-team.

no paperwork, just the directive: follow the rules but make it difficult for them

for o-team, it did not matter so much about "non-exempt status" it was more about making a statement.

that statement, you ask?

it was simple: "we can hurt you...we have the power to hurt you where it counts, your pocketbook. if we can tease out who you are for non-exempt status, we can audit, and ultimately fudge the numbers to screw you?"

It was an implied threat, of course, and the hope was that this scare tactic would dry up the movement. the tea-party folk in the trenches would be reluctant to wear the "yellow star" as it were and would be less active, less vocal and eventually fizzle out. if you wear the yellow star, we will hurt you.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 05:03 AM   #2
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If a group of people, whether on the right or the left, organize for the purpose of supporting or opposing political candidates, causes or legislation they are by definition political and should not be granted tax exempt status. You can't tell me that these organizations are "social welfare" organizations when the vast majority of their time and money is spent on political activity. The IRS should go over all the requests from these organizations and even review the ones already granted. This situation is another example how money and shadow groups have hijacked the process.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 06:04 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgf View Post
If a group of people, whether on the right or the left, organize for the purpose of supporting or opposing political candidates
The Tea Party's purpose is NOT to support specific candidates or specific parties. Their sole purpose is to support those patriotic citizens that are committed to small, unobtrusive, non-nanny state government - that's all! Which ever candidate of a particular race fits the bill the best, regardless of party, is whom they support - period. Get it yet?
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Old September 24th, 2013, 06:57 AM   #4
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Oh that's precious, "citizens" don't you mean candidates? The Tea Party I know doesn't do anything but politics. You can label it anyway you want but there is no social welfare component to it and when they accepted a big donation from a nationally known conservative group (that was over 90% of their budget) specifically to support candidates in the primary I walked away. I guess there is no letter of the law or intent of the law in your book.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 07:30 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aufgeblassen View Post
The Tea Party's purpose is NOT to support specific candidates or specific parties. Their sole purpose is to support those patriotic citizens that are committed to small, unobtrusive, non-nanny state government - that's all! Which ever candidate of a particular race fits the bill the best, regardless of party, is whom they support - period. Get it yet?
When has the TP EVER supported a Socialist (can't get much pro-small gov't then an anarchist), a Green, a Libertarian, a Constitutionalist or a Democrat? The TP is just the crazy mouth piece the Republican Party uses to make hem seem like the polar opposite of the Democrats so nobody notices that they always vote for the same laws as the Dems (no gov't shutdown, Obamacare, re-authorization of the PATRIOT Act, etc.). Clearly you've fallen for it.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 07:35 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by rgf View Post
there is no social welfare component to it
No duh!! They are totally against a social welfare state whereby fully capable individuals are looking for (and getting) a handout; everyone capable should pull their own weight!!!
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Old September 24th, 2013, 09:29 AM   #7
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The tax law states that an organization looking for tax exempt status under the various 501 statues must be engaged primarily in "social welfare or education activities" and must have limited political activities. Honestly does that sound like any Tea Party groups you know of? Please don't confuse me with the data or any facts-my mind is made up!!!!!!
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Old September 24th, 2013, 09:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgf View Post
The tax law states that an organization looking for tax exempt status under the various 501 statues must be engaged primarily in "social welfare or education activities" and must have limited political activities. Honestly does that sound like any Tea Party groups you know of? Please don't confuse me with the data or any facts-my mind is made up!!!!!!
They are educating the public on how bad a path Obama is taking us on!!!
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Old September 24th, 2013, 07:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aufgeblassen View Post
They are educating the public on how bad a path Obama is taking us on!!!
They're not educating anybody about anything, they're just regurgitation old campaign slogans and ranting about how evil the Dems are for adopting the Repub platform (they leave out that last part obviously). There's a reason nobody actually takes them seriously.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 07:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
They're not educating anybody about anything, they're just regurgitation old campaign slogans and ranting about how evil the Dems are for adopting the Repub platform (they leave out that last part obviously). There's a reason nobody actually takes them seriously.
The democrats and republicans are rather meaningless.

The tea party is conservative, the democrats and republicans aren't. The republicans are statist and the democrats are socialist globalist.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 07:39 PM   #11
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The democrats and republicans are rather meaningless.

The tea party is conservative, the democrats and republicans aren't. The republicans are statist and the democrats are socialist globalist.
I disagree with the socialist bit regarding the Dems (3rd Way to be sure) but otherwise I agree. In fact I stated as much a few posts up.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 07:44 PM   #12
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I disagree with the socialist bit regarding the Dems (3rd Way to be sure) but otherwise I agree. In fact I stated as much a few posts up.
It doesn't matter, the democrat party is socialist. They definitely aren't conservative.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 07:50 PM   #13
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It doesn't matter, the democrat party is socialist. They definitely aren't conservative.
The democrats are 3rd Way, not socialist. If the Dems were socialist they'd of sold GM and Chrysler to the AWU (thus achieving worker ownership), not back to the BoD of both companies and Wall St.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 07:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
The democrats are 3rd Way, not socialist. If the Dems were socialist they'd of sold GM and Chrysler to the AWU (thus achieving worker ownership), not back to the BoD of both companies and Wall St.
They didn't have any business dealing with Chrysler or GM in the first place. The fact that they involved themselves means they are socialists.

3rd way is socialism in disguise.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 09:12 PM   #15
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They didn't have any business dealing with Chrysler or GM in the first place. The fact that they involved themselves means they are socialists.

3rd way is socialism in disguise.
So would you have preferred GM and Chrysler gone under? Ignoring the auto workers, what do you think would have happened to the dealerships, the factories that made the parts, the auto repair shops? People were being thrown out of their homes by the millions, such an action (or inaction) would have put millions more out of work (with millions already losing their jobs). We'd of had 40% unemployment and a revolution soon after.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 09:54 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
So would you have preferred GM and Chrysler gone under? Ignoring the auto workers, what do you think would have happened to the dealerships, the factories that made the parts, the auto repair shops? People were being thrown out of their homes by the millions, such an action (or inaction) would have put millions more out of work (with millions already losing their jobs). We'd of had 40% unemployment and a revolution soon after.
It would have ended the auto worker union, a socialist construct, I am fine with that. Unions are what bankrupted them in the first place. So I don't care about that.

Dealerships would have sold fords, Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, Hyundai, Volkswagon, and Volvo. They aren't owned by manufacturers. Parts are typically manufactured over seas because unions have destroyed the manufacturing in the states.

If Michigan was a right to work state there wouldn't be an issue. people being thrown out of their homes is simply their inability to afford their homes. If they were not members of a parasitic union they would have been able to keep their jobs and afford their homes.

What do I care that America's crummyist cars would no longer be able to embarrass the nation. Nobody cared when Chrysler was bought by Daimler Benz in 2000 our by Fiat in 2011, maybe they can produce cars that aren't complete garbage. Nobody card when AMC went under, they made trash.

So the little Chevy cars that are really Deawoo cars with Chevy badges slapped on them being lost is no big deal to me. I drive a Chevy and I buy parts that are produced in China to repair it, hell you can't get American made parts for it.

There is no need for the salvation of a dying industry. If they produced quality products, like Ford and Toyota then they wouldn't need saving.

Just kicking at a dead horse to preserve socialism in the form of labor unions.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 04:54 AM   #17
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So would you have preferred GM and Chrysler gone under?
They likely would not have gone under, if they were indeed worth saving. Many airlines have gone in and back out of bankruptcy, and car companies would have done the same, but without the burden to tax payers.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 06:50 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Aufgeblassen View Post
They likely would not have gone under, if they were indeed worth saving. Many airlines have gone in and back out of bankruptcy, and car companies would have done the same, but without the burden to tax payers.
When an airline goes bust another simply takes them over. There were only 3 major automakers (4 now with Tesla), 2 of them on the ropes and the last (Ford) just keeping its head above water. As I said, the fallout would have resulted in economic hardship on a scale that destroys civilizations. Normal economic theory didn't apply.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 08:01 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
When an airline goes bust another simply takes them over. There were only 3 major automakers (4 now with Tesla), 2 of them on the ropes and the last (Ford) just keeping its head above water. As I said, the fallout would have resulted in economic hardship on a scale that destroys civilizations. Normal economic theory didn't apply.
No, airlines have emerged from bankruptcy on their own, without being taken over. If a car company did indeed fail, it would have been not salvageable, and the best thing for all concerned would be to finally go away.

Just like the many companies Mitt Romney tried to, and did save, for a handful of them, that simply was not feasible, and they liquidated.

Also just like the green energy companies that Obama is trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Last edited by Aufgeblassen; September 25th, 2013 at 10:06 AM.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 02:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
When an airline goes bust another simply takes them over. There were only 3 major automakers (4 now with Tesla), 2 of them on the ropes and the last (Ford) just keeping its head above water. As I said, the fallout would have resulted in economic hardship on a scale that destroys civilizations. Normal economic theory didn't apply.
Tesla isn't a major auto maker. They have less than one percent of the market
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