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Old January 30th, 2010, 05:15 PM   #1
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Latin America changing strategies on war on drugs

Some Latin American countries are changing their strategy on dealing with drug trafficking. The move calls for easing costs that come with going after small-time users, and instead reallocating some money towards catching the big-time traffickers. The new strategy is in contrast to the United States' "War on Drugs" policies, which Latin American countries have emulated in recent decades. The change comes after these countries have failed to see positive results with the old strategy.

full story here: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60S4MD20100129

Thoughts?
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Old January 31st, 2010, 02:24 AM   #2
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Some Latin American countries are changing their strategy on dealing with drug trafficking. The move calls for easing costs that come with going after small-time users, and instead reallocating some money towards catching the big-time traffickers. The new strategy is in contrast to the United States' "War on Drugs" policies, which Latin American countries have emulated in recent decades. The change comes after these countries have failed to see positive results with the old strategy.

full story here: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60S4MD20100129

Thoughts?
Wonder whether that would then mean sacrificing the lawlessness of small traffickers for the large ones, i.e. allowing drugs to be circulated by the small traffickers and allowing them to commit associated crimes as a means to an end, i.e. catching the big guys? Wonder how effective that would be?
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Old January 31st, 2010, 08:34 AM   #3
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The best way to fight drugs is to relieve poverty.
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Old January 31st, 2010, 08:29 PM   #4
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Wonder whether that would then mean sacrificing the lawlessness of small traffickers for the large ones, i.e. allowing drugs to be circulated by the small traffickers and allowing them to commit associated crimes as a means to an end, i.e. catching the big guys? Wonder how effective that would be?
Personally, I think the best strategy would be simply to end the war on drugs. No matter what they do, there will always be people who are willing to break the law when it comes to this.

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The best way to fight drugs is to relieve poverty.
I agree, although I wouldn't mind seeing these laws abolished as well.
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Old February 1st, 2010, 12:24 AM   #5
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Personally, I think the best strategy would be simply to end the war on drugs. No matter what they do, there will always be people who are willing to break the law when it comes to this.
The only strategy that would work, would be one where misery in life is completely taken away, and I don't see that happening in our current society Drugs are a way of escapism, and of course really bad for society from a mental and medical point of view, if the war on drugs were to end, it would create enormous stress on society, delinquency in children would be the first negative consequence, with enormous ramifications for society as a whole.

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The best way to fight drugs is to relieve poverty.
I would rephrase it rather to say that a good way to fight drugs would be to find ways to employ people better, so that they are more productive, have a reason to live, and are hopeful of a positive future.
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Old February 1st, 2010, 04:22 AM   #6
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Drugs are a way of escapism, and of course really bad for society from a mental and medical point of view,
Well, it depends what you're talking about. I mean, you can barely say heroin and cannabis in the same sentence. Cannabis should be legal, simple as. The legalisation of heroin, however, is more about the State's right to interfere in one's life.

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if the war on drugs were to end, it would create enormous stress on society, delinquency in children would be the first negative consequence, with enormous ramifications for society as a whole.
First off, i doubt the war on drugs has much effect on narcotics in society anyway. It's basically just pissing away money on fantastical schemes to attain unrealistic goals. Secondly, if people want drugs, they will get drugs. Whatever the opposition.

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I would rephrase it rather to say that a good way to fight drugs would be to find ways to employ people better, so that they are more productive, have a reason to live, and are hopeful of a positive future.
Good way of putting it. It's essentially making peoples' lives better. That would aid the cause of the problem.
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 08:42 AM   #7
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Well, it depends what you're talking about. I mean, you can barely say heroin and cannabis in the same sentence. Cannabis should be legal, simple as. The legalisation of heroin, however, is more about the State's right to interfere in one's life.
Strictly speaking I cannot really comment with authority. I have never been interested in either marijuana or doing drugs. Commenting from the outside in however, and looking at my friends, cannabis always seems to be the first step before experimenting with new drugs. Almost psychological that there is "nothing wrong" with cannabis, it relaxes you, so obviously if people could lie about that, they have to be lying about other drugs too. Then of course they experiment, and then get lost and unable to let go with very logical consequences.
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First off, i doubt the war on drugs has much effect on narcotics in society anyway. It's basically just pissing away money on fantastical schemes to attain unrealistic goals. Secondly, if people want drugs, they will get drugs. Whatever the opposition.
Where I am in the Middle East, I would not even dream to try. There are very tough penalties and you do not want to land in a jail over here. I would have thought jail in the United States would not be very comfortable either?
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 08:59 AM   #8
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Strictly speaking I cannot really comment with authority. I have never been interested in either marijuana or doing drugs. Commenting from the outside in however, and looking at my friends, cannabis always seems to be the first step before experimenting with new drugs. Almost psychological that there is "nothing wrong" with cannabis, it relaxes you, so obviously if people could lie about that, they have to be lying about other drugs too. Then of course they experiment, and then get lost and unable to let go with very logical consequences.
Where I am in the Middle East, I would not even dream to try. There are very tough penalties and you do not want to land in a jail over here. I would have thought jail in the United States would not be very comfortable either?
I don't even want to be "locked in" my own home. Just something about you can't leave bothers me.

I think some of us are just "programmed" to be addicted to things. My grandmother always told me not to ever take a "drink" then I would not have to quit. I should have listened. I would have more money if I had.

As for the "pot", tried it and did not like it. But then I don't like "cotton mouth".
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 09:05 AM   #9
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I think some of us are just "programmed" to be addicted to things.
That is so true. Think some of it is chemical, in that people have a chemical imbalance in their brain.

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My grandmother always told me not to ever take a "drink" then I would not have to quit. I should have listened. I would have more money if I had.
Just imagine all the nice stories you would have missed? I think the stories that are exchanged when people get together for a drink or two are always special. Like solving all of the world's problems and at the end of it feeling that the world is turning the right way.
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 09:35 AM   #10
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That is so true. Think some of it is chemical, in that people have a chemical imbalance in their brain.

Just imagine all the nice stories you would have missed? I think the stories that are exchanged when people get together for a drink or two are always special. Like solving all of the world's problems and at the end of it feeling that the world is turning the right way.
Yes and having your butt kicked by 3 or 4 cops in a dark parking lot before getting locked up. Those are the ones you remember.
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Old February 2nd, 2010, 10:27 AM   #11
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Strictly speaking I cannot really comment with authority. I have never been interested in either marijuana or doing drugs. Commenting from the outside in however, and looking at my friends, cannabis always seems to be the first step before experimenting with new drugs. Almost psychological that there is "nothing wrong" with cannabis, it relaxes you, so obviously if people could lie about that, they have to be lying about other drugs too. Then of course they experiment, and then get lost and unable to let go with very logical consequences.
So ultimately, you're saying the illegality of cannabis actually makes it more dangerous?

I agree.
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Old February 3rd, 2010, 07:39 AM   #12
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So ultimately, you're saying the illegality of cannabis actually makes it more dangerous?

I agree.
There is that, but then I think in my example it is about teenagers rebelling against authority, first of all their parents, and at the same time competing with one another to see how far they can take things with drugs. Like teenagers who compete with one another along "chicken" lines.
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Old February 9th, 2010, 05:15 AM   #13
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Don't reform prohibition, just repeal it.

Cartels would have no customers if the customers had liberty to garden and share nature's bounty. There is no drug problem. There's only a prohibition problem. If Aspirin were to be prohibited, you would then see aspirin-crime and aspirin-violence. Demagogs would blame it on the nasty aspirin-user counter-culture. Society suffers from liberty-starvation. Don't reform prohibition, just repeal it. Only liberty can cure society's plague. One would think that the national embarrassment of having to burn a whole constitutional amendment just to say "oops, that prohibition idea was unwise," would've been a lesson to prohibitionists, but one would be wrong. Prohibitionists would have you believe that God goofed when He created the psychoactive plants, and determined the bodily response to their intake. The way forward is to repeal the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, and other drug laws. Sunset the DEA and close the prisons. Let these shores once again know the lost blessings of liberty, and peace on the home front.
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Old February 9th, 2010, 05:20 AM   #14
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Cartels would have no customers if the customers had liberty to garden and share nature's bounty. There is no drug problem. There's only a prohibition problem. If Aspirin were to be prohibited, you would then see aspirin-crime and aspirin-violence. Demagogs would blame it on the nasty aspirin-user counter-culture. Society suffers from liberty-starvation. Don't reform prohibition, just repeal it. Only liberty can cure society's plague. One would think that the national embarrassment of having to burn a whole constitutional amendment just to say "oops, that prohibition idea was unwise," would've been a lesson to prohibitionists, but one would be wrong. Prohibitionists would have you believe that God goofed when He created the psychoactive plants, and determined the bodily response to their intake. The way forward is to repeal the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, and other drug laws. Sunset the DEA and close the prisons. Let these shores once again know the lost blessings of liberty, and peace on the home front.
I agree for the most part but do we really want to see people tripping on Acid at the local grocery store? Hard drugs need to be kept in check.
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Old February 9th, 2010, 05:24 AM   #15
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close the prisons.
You had me thinking there for a minute. But that closing prisons thing will not work. Not because of any laws. But because of some of the people in prisons. If we had no prisons we would need "firing squads" and "gallows" for "instant justice". And I don't think most people have the stomach for that.
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Old February 9th, 2010, 10:35 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Bill Harris View Post
Cartels would have no customers if the customers had liberty to garden and share nature's bounty. There is no drug problem. There's only a prohibition problem. If Aspirin were to be prohibited, you would then see aspirin-crime and aspirin-violence. Demagogs would blame it on the nasty aspirin-user counter-culture. Society suffers from liberty-starvation. Don't reform prohibition, just repeal it. Only liberty can cure society's plague. One would think that the national embarrassment of having to burn a whole constitutional amendment just to say "oops, that prohibition idea was unwise," would've been a lesson to prohibitionists, but one would be wrong. Prohibitionists would have you believe that God goofed when He created the psychoactive plants, and determined the bodily response to their intake. The way forward is to repeal the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, and other drug laws. Sunset the DEA and close the prisons. Let these shores once again know the lost blessings of liberty, and peace on the home front.
What's this?

It's...

It's... a post i fully agree with. A rarity, it must be said.
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Old February 9th, 2010, 11:21 AM   #17
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What's this?

It's...

It's... a post i fully agree with. A rarity, it must be said.
Are you sure you are up to this agreeing thing? Just take it slow and you should be okay.
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Old February 9th, 2010, 12:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Harris View Post
Cartels would have no customers if the customers had liberty to garden and share nature's bounty. There is no drug problem. There's only a prohibition problem. If Aspirin were to be prohibited, you would then see aspirin-crime and aspirin-violence. Demagogs would blame it on the nasty aspirin-user counter-culture. Society suffers from liberty-starvation. Don't reform prohibition, just repeal it. Only liberty can cure society's plague. One would think that the national embarrassment of having to burn a whole constitutional amendment just to say "oops, that prohibition idea was unwise," would've been a lesson to prohibitionists, but one would be wrong. Prohibitionists would have you believe that God goofed when He created the psychoactive plants, and determined the bodily response to their intake. The way forward is to repeal the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, and other drug laws. Sunset the DEA and close the prisons. Let these shores once again know the lost blessings of liberty, and peace on the home front.
I don't agree with the aspirin analogy. Aspirin is not the kind of "drug" that people would get addicted to. They may use it as a habit, but I doubt they would go into chemical dependency, such as hard drugs or prescription drugs could grow into. If aspirin should become unavailable, I'm sure people would find an equivalent over the counter substitute very easily.

If liberty was really the answer, and it it so simple, I would have imagined that that would have been employed centuries ago, but liberty is impossible as no one is really equal, we are all in competition with one another, there is a lot of stress on people, they are also biologically not equal to one another. As long as society is unable to become "perfect" there will always be a need for taking drugs and for those drugs that are habitforming, especially for people with chemical imbalance problems, it is probably wise to regulate its use. Since there are quite a number of people around who want to do harm to others, as part of society that is not working that well, we will need some system to apprehend them, rehabilitate them if they can be rehabilitated and/or incarcerate them. So prisons are really necessary.
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Old February 9th, 2010, 09:25 PM   #19
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I don't agree with the aspirin analogy. Aspirin is not the kind of "drug" that people would get addicted to. They may use it as a habit, but I doubt they would go into chemical dependency, such as hard drugs or prescription drugs could grow into. If aspirin should become unavailable, I'm sure people would find an equivalent over the counter substitute very easily.

If liberty was really the answer, and it it so simple, I would have imagined that that would have been employed centuries ago, but liberty is impossible as no one is really equal, we are all in competition with one another, there is a lot of stress on people, they are also biologically not equal to one another. As long as society is unable to become "perfect" there will always be a need for taking drugs and for those drugs that are habitforming, especially for people with chemical imbalance problems, it is probably wise to regulate its use. Since there are quite a number of people around who want to do harm to others, as part of society that is not working that well, we will need some system to apprehend them, rehabilitate them if they can be rehabilitated and/or incarcerate them. So prisons are really necessary.
Agreed, Fast Food would have been better.
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Old February 9th, 2010, 10:33 PM   #20
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Agreed, Fast Food would have been better.
I did not say anything about fast food though, so probably you need to remove the "Agreed"?
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