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Old February 24th, 2010, 08:50 AM   #1
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Greece goes into strike- civil unrest starts

In the midst of a severe financial crisis, tens of thousands of protesters took to the streets in Greece for a 24-hour strike. Shortly after some violence also began as some young people began to throw things at police. The anger is the result of massive spending cuts which were required due to the growing and unsustainable debt. Protesters held signs that told the government not to take their benefits and things like "People are more important than markets and banks."

ref: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...DDLETopStories

Thoughts?
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Old February 24th, 2010, 09:29 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by myp View Post
In the midst of a severe financial crisis, tens of thousands of protesters took to the streets in Greece for a 24-hour strike. Shortly after some violence also began as some young people began to throw things at police. The anger is the result of massive spending cuts which were required due to the growing and unsustainable debt. Protesters held signs that told the government not to take their benefits and things like "People are more important than markets and banks."

ref: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...DDLETopStories

Thoughts?
Thoughts? I think the Greeks are idiots.
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Old February 24th, 2010, 10:02 AM   #3
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Thoughts?
Is there anyone here who's actually surprised?

I've said it many times before, and i'll say it again. The country's been on the edge of revolution for years. The Government is under a microscope - if it puts a foot wrong, there will be an outbreak of violence. Cutting public services and welfare is the mark of supreme idiocy on the side of the Government.

If they must, by all means cut things, but use some bloody common sense, eh?

Oh, and about the workers, good luck to 'em.
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Old February 24th, 2010, 02:08 PM   #4
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If they must, by all means cut things, but use some bloody common sense, eh?
The problem is, that there comes a time when the costs from these state socialist programs are just so great in relation to the money they bring in that they do have to be cut. It is the history of state socialism and one which sadly still hasn't lost popularity.
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Old February 24th, 2010, 02:22 PM   #5
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The problem is, that there comes a time when the costs from these state socialist programs are just so great in relation to the money they bring in that they do have to be cut. It is the history of state socialism and one which sadly still hasn't lost popularity.
Oh, I agree. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it.
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Old February 24th, 2010, 02:57 PM   #6
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The problem is, that there comes a time when the costs from these state socialist programs are just so great in relation to the money they bring in that they do have to be cut.
The lesson is efficiency, when it comes to welfare, not cuts. And real efficiency, not the efficiency that requires a committee costing more than it saves and not the efficiency which causes the poor to suffer. In Greece, you cannot cut just anything - you are damned careful. It is surgery, not bush-trimming.

In the UK, it is a different story. The New Labour Government made some pretty vicious cuts in their Welfare (reform) Bill. I'm actually a bit surprised they got away with it - though i suppose the people are set to vote in a Conservative (big C, it's more like your liberal) minority Government.
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Old March 4th, 2010, 04:51 AM   #7
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Thoughts? I think the Greeks are idiots.
Well they certainly don't know how to govern themselves. Have they ever been able to manage themselves successfully, one scandal after the other. Ditto Italy. People have to hate their Governments in those countries.
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Old March 4th, 2010, 06:00 AM   #8
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Ditto Italy.
I still don't get why Italians love Berlusconi.
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Old March 4th, 2010, 08:46 AM   #9
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The lesson is efficiency, when it comes to welfare, not cuts. And real efficiency, not the efficiency that requires a committee costing more than it saves and not the efficiency which causes the poor to suffer.
To get to the state where things are sustainable into the foreseeable future and the pools of money for these programs large enough to avoid going into the red, one of two things would be needed- massive tax hikes or quality/entitlement drops (relative to the current situation in most state socialist programs around the world.) Basically, you would have to run that government program like a private entity, but of course everyone demonizes those and expects more because so many of us have been living beyond our means for so long. If we do want to get to that state though, I would still rather have this in the hands of the private sector as it is less prone to corruption since it doesn't have the power to tax as much as it wants.
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Old March 4th, 2010, 05:15 PM   #10
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To get to the state where things are sustainable into the foreseeable future and the pools of money for these programs large enough to avoid going into the red, one of two things would be needed- massive tax hikes or quality/entitlement drops (relative to the current situation in most state socialist programs around the world.) Basically, you would have to run that government program like a private entity, but of course everyone demonizes those and expects more because so many of us have been living beyond our means for so long. If we do want to get to that state though, I would still rather have this in the hands of the private sector as it is less prone to corruption since it doesn't have the power to tax as much as it wants.
There's a difference between state socialism and social democracy. A BIG difference. In the context of Greece, the only sane way to remove these programs is to remove the Government through an anarchist revolution. The Greek People will not allow their beloved welfare and services to be cut for the errors of the bankers without a fight. This is what we see in the General Strike right now. If it's true the cuts are ABSOLUTELY necessary, they should be made as carefully as possible. Otherwise, they'll have a revolution on their hands.

I don't really even need to address your point. Enacting it in Greece is not only unrealistic, but political suicide. of course, if the system undermines itself and leads to anarchism, then maybe i should like it a bit more.
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Old March 4th, 2010, 11:24 PM   #11
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I still don't get why Italians love Berlusconi.
Right, neither have I, and I think if you can get to that truth, then perhaps that is the reason why they have never managed to have good Governments.
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