The Political Fray - Political Forum
Go Back   Political Fray > The Political Fray > Current Events

Current Events Latest news, current events, and headlines from around the world


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old February 21st, 2012, 08:17 PM   #1
myp
Founding Father
 
myp's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: us
Posts: 5,907

US could arm Syrian rebels

After a vicious raid by Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's forces that took the lives of over 60 people, it looks like the US could be changing its position on getting involved in Syria.

Quote:
The United States appeared to open the door to eventually arming Syria's opposition, saying that if a political solution to the crisis was impossible it might have to consider other options.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8DB0BH20120222
myp is offline  
Old February 21st, 2012, 08:37 PM   #2
Congressional Leader
 
DodgeFB's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Undisclosed
Posts: 2,821

Quote:
Originally Posted by myp View Post
After a vicious raid by Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's forces that took the lives of over 60 people, it looks like the US could be changing its position on getting involved in Syria.



http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8DB0BH20120222
I am against arming anyone. We have armed half the world already. And our soldiers end up being attacked with our weapons.
DodgeFB is offline  
Old February 27th, 2012, 01:27 PM   #3
myp
Founding Father
 
myp's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: us
Posts: 5,907

Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeFB View Post
I am against arming anyone. We have armed half the world already. And our soldiers end up being attacked with our weapons.
Gun prohibition doesn't work Bigger question is political and moral.
myp is offline  
Old February 27th, 2012, 01:50 PM   #4
Representative
 
Comet's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2011
From: Earth
Posts: 322

I caution for calling for a new government in Syria. May seem like a swell idea on the outside, but when you delve a little deeper into the situation their are red flags.

I will give you one reason we should be hesitant on wanting new leadership.

Egypt.

The Obama administration publicly called for Mubarak to step down and for new leadership. And they got it. Now we have Muslim Brotherhood sticking their snout into political office and attempting to be shot-callers.

And as bad as Mubarak was, he cannot hold a candle to the Muslim Brotherhood. At least with Mubarak, we know what we had. Matters could spiral out of control if the MB obtain power.

As the old saying goes, "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't."

If the MB do take control, the situation for the Coptics will become incredibly worse. In fact, if I was a Coptic, I would probably jump into the Mediterranean Sea and paddle for Greece.
Comet is offline  
Old February 27th, 2012, 04:09 PM   #5
Vice President
 
David's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
From: Opa Locka
Posts: 6,078

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comet View Post
I caution for calling for a new government in Syria. May seem like a swell idea on the outside, but when you delve a little deeper into the situation their are red flags.

I will give you one reason we should be hesitant on wanting new leadership.

Egypt.

The Obama administration publicly called for Mubarak to step down and for new leadership. And they got it. Now we have Muslim Brotherhood sticking their snout into political office and attempting to be shot-callers.

And as bad as Mubarak was, he cannot hold a candle to the Muslim Brotherhood. At least with Mubarak, we know what we had. Matters could spiral out of control if the MB obtain power.

As the old saying goes, "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't."

If the MB do take control, the situation for the Coptics will become incredibly worse. In fact, if I was a Coptic, I would probably jump into the Mediterranean Sea and paddle for Greece.
Egypt could take a page from Sudan's book and split the country into Islamic and Christian states.
David is offline  
Old February 28th, 2012, 04:55 AM   #6
Congressional Leader
 
DodgeFB's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Undisclosed
Posts: 2,821

Quote:
Originally Posted by myp View Post
Gun prohibition doesn't work Bigger question is political and moral.
True "Gun prohibition doesn't work" here. But as one that was shot at with my own gun, arming others is not always a good choice.
DodgeFB is offline  
Old February 28th, 2012, 09:07 AM   #7
Representative
 
RoccoR's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
From: Reynoldsburg, OH
Posts: 216

et al,

The US does not want to get involved. This is another no-win money pit.

If the Syrians wan a new government, let them work for it. Let them decide their own destiny.

Remember, President Assad has not fired a gun and not killed anyone. These Syrian Government Forces are Syrians. This is Syrian-on-Syrian. This is not a religious based contest. If the "Syrians" want a change, it is well within their ability to do so.

They don't need help of any kind from the US. If the US gets involved, it will just be one more example to the Arabs of American Intervention in the internal affairs of a Middle Eastern State. And if the Assad Government prevails, we will, once again, look like villains.

Most Respectfully,
R
RoccoR is offline  
Old February 28th, 2012, 09:11 AM   #8
Congressional Leader
 
DodgeFB's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Undisclosed
Posts: 2,821

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoccoR View Post
et al,

The US does not want to get involved. This is another no-win money pit.

If the Syrians wan a new government, let them work for it. Let them decide their own destiny.



They don't need help of any kind from the US. If the US gets involved, it will just be one more example to the Arabs of American Intervention in the internal affairs of a Middle Eastern State. And if the Assad Government prevails, we will, once again, look like villains.

Most Respectfully,
R
I agree we need to keep our nose out of this one.
DodgeFB is offline  
Old February 28th, 2012, 01:27 PM   #9
myp
Founding Father
 
myp's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: us
Posts: 5,907

Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeFB View Post
True "Gun prohibition doesn't work" here. But as one that was shot at with my own gun, arming others is not always a good choice.
And standing by as innocent people are murdered might not also always be a good choice.
myp is offline  
Old February 28th, 2012, 01:34 PM   #10
Congressional Leader
 
DodgeFB's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Undisclosed
Posts: 2,821

Quote:
Originally Posted by myp View Post
And standing by as innocent people are murdered might not also always be a good choice.
We can not save the world. Innocent people are dying all over the world. We get involved and still end up hated. We screw up and offend someone then they want us dead because we hurt their feelings. Well my feelings are already hurt, so I want us to stay out of it.
DodgeFB is offline  
Old February 28th, 2012, 01:42 PM   #11
myp
Founding Father
 
myp's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: us
Posts: 5,907

Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeFB View Post
We can not save the world. Innocent people are dying all over the world. We get involved and still end up hated. We screw up and offend someone then they want us dead because we hurt their feelings. Well my feelings are already hurt, so I want us to stay out of it.
If another Hitler were alive today would you intervene or watch people burn in the concentration camps?
myp is offline  
Old February 28th, 2012, 01:51 PM   #12
Congressional Leader
 
DodgeFB's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Undisclosed
Posts: 2,821

Quote:
Originally Posted by myp View Post
If another Hitler were alive today would you intervene or watch people burn in the concentration camps?
Right now I see many little Hitlers around the world. I might help them if they had the ability to appreciate the effort. I just don't see it there.
DodgeFB is offline  
Old February 28th, 2012, 01:57 PM   #13
myp
Founding Father
 
myp's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: us
Posts: 5,907

Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeFB View Post
Right now I see many little Hitlers around the world. I might help them if they had the ability to appreciate the effort. I just don't see it there.
How can you say that? You really think the women getting raped multiple times everyday in parts of Africa or the parents whose children just got murdered in Syria really won't be thankful? You are confusing not getting absolute thanks with getting no thanks. Some people will be glad you went, others won't, that's how it is. The Nazis didn't "appreciate the effort" when we went to Germany, but the Jews sure as hell did.
myp is offline  
Old February 28th, 2012, 02:03 PM   #14
Congressional Leader
 
DodgeFB's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Undisclosed
Posts: 2,821

Quote:
Originally Posted by myp View Post
How can you say that? You really think the women getting raped multiple times everyday in parts of Africa or the parents whose children just got murdered in Syria really won't be thankful? You are confusing not getting absolute thanks with getting no thanks. Some people will be glad you went, others won't, that's how it is. The Nazis didn't "appreciate the effort" when we went to Germany, but the Jews sure as hell did.
I can say that because we have had our turn at playing hero. Let someone else try on the cape.

And women will be raped in this country tonight. We are here and can't stop that either. There are limits to everyone and everything.

Look at who gets elected when they do get freedom.
DodgeFB is offline  
Old February 28th, 2012, 02:06 PM   #15
myp
Founding Father
 
myp's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: us
Posts: 5,907

Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeFB View Post
I can say that because we have had our turn at playing hero. Let someone else try on the cape.

And women will be raped in this country tonight. We are here and can't stop that either. There are limits to everyone and everything.
That doesn't mean the discussion isn't worth having. There should be a push for a more global effort in bad cases yes, but in this case especially we are talking about giving weapons. It won't cost American lives, just some metal. Hardly a price to pay if we feel it is a moral obligation. I am not taking the side that we should do it, but the discussion is worth having.

And rape in America is nothing compared to those other nations. Not exactly a fair comparison.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeFB View Post
Look at who gets elected when they do get freedom.
Sure, let's do it. Remember that Japan, Germany, Italy etc. all count here too.
myp is offline  
Old February 28th, 2012, 02:08 PM   #16
Congressional Leader
 
DodgeFB's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Undisclosed
Posts: 2,821

Quote:
Originally Posted by myp View Post

And rape in America is nothing compared to those other nations. Not exactly a fair comparison.
If you or one of your family are the one being raped it is more than fair. It has happened in my own family.
DodgeFB is offline  
Old February 28th, 2012, 02:11 PM   #17
myp
Founding Father
 
myp's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: us
Posts: 5,907

Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeFB View Post
If you or one of your family are the one being raped it is more than fair. It has happened in my own family.
One rape is not equivalent to one thousand rapes. Rape is never right, but there is a difference. Statistically we will probably never completely eliminate rape (unfortunately), but we definitely can reduce it.
myp is offline  
Old March 5th, 2012, 04:26 AM   #18
Representative
 
RoccoR's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
From: Reynoldsburg, OH
Posts: 216

myp, DodgeFB, et al,

War is a seriously ugly business. Civil War, is even worse.

I don't think any sane individual doubts the scope and nature of the brutality in war. But, it is who they are and it is their destiny to choose.

No matter where you go in the Middle East and Persian Gulf Region, the history is marred by the viciousness in which the indigenous population engages in abominable, hideous, odious, atrocious, and abhorrent manner in which they effect regime change. What you see is not unusual in their lands. This viciousness at which they go about this is heavily influenced by culture, attitudes, emotions, religious values, ethics, and ancient history which they believe is still relevant in the 21st Century.

This is, as expressed here, a struggle (Syrian-on-Syrian) that seems clear, cut'n'dry to us (Americans), but is actually a deep division in the Syrian Society. If it was so simple as the media, the Diplomatic Corps, and the Brain Dead Leadership in Washington seem to suggest, then the Syrian, as one people and one voice, would have already enacted change. But it is clearly not that simple. Not all Syrians want change and hence, the struggle.

America is an outsider. It is not our place to intervene and interrupt the normal course of Syrian development; as barbaric, bloodthirsty, and horrific as they make it. I can only imagine how damn proud the Ba'athist and the Government feel in the leadership they have shown that brings them to this outcome in history.

America must stay out of it. No matter which side America would choose to support, it will eventually come back to haunt us. Let the Syrians, as a people, demonstrate to the world just exactly how civilized they are.

Most Respectfully,
R
RoccoR is offline  
Old March 5th, 2012, 04:40 AM   #19
Congressional Leader
 
DodgeFB's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Undisclosed
Posts: 2,821

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoccoR View Post
myp, DodgeFB, et al,

War is a seriously ugly business. Civil War, is even worse.

I don't think any sane individual doubts the scope and nature of the brutality in war. But, it is who they are and it is their destiny to choose.

No matter where you go in the Middle East and Persian Gulf Region, the history is marred by the viciousness in which the indigenous population engages in abominable, hideous, odious, atrocious, and abhorrent manner in which they effect regime change. What you see is not unusual in their lands. This viciousness at which they go about this is heavily influenced by culture, attitudes, emotions, religious values, ethics, and ancient history which they believe is still relevant in the 21st Century.

This is, as expressed here, a struggle (Syrian-on-Syrian) that seems clear, cut'n'dry to us (Americans), but is actually a deep division in the Syrian Society. If it was so simple as the media, the Diplomatic Corps, and the Brain Dead Leadership in Washington seem to suggest, then the Syrian, as one people and one voice, would have already enacted change. But it is clearly not that simple. Not all Syrians want change and hence, the struggle.

America is an outsider. It is not our place to intervene and interrupt the normal course of Syrian development; as barbaric, bloodthirsty, and horrific as they make it. I can only imagine how damn proud the Ba'athist and the Government feel in the leadership they have shown that brings them to this outcome in history.

America must stay out of it. No matter which side America would choose to support, it will eventually come back to haunt us. Let the Syrians, as a people, demonstrate to the world just exactly how civilized they are.

Most Respectfully,
R
I agree 100%. We have done enough damage to the US and to that part of the world. And it needs to stop.
DodgeFB is offline  
Old March 5th, 2012, 08:52 AM   #20
myp
Founding Father
 
myp's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: us
Posts: 5,907

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoccoR View Post
myp, DodgeFB, et al,

War is a seriously ugly business. Civil War, is even worse.

I don't think any sane individual doubts the scope and nature of the brutality in war. But, it is who they are and it is their destiny to choose.

No matter where you go in the Middle East and Persian Gulf Region, the history is marred by the viciousness in which the indigenous population engages in abominable, hideous, odious, atrocious, and abhorrent manner in which they effect regime change. What you see is not unusual in their lands. This viciousness at which they go about this is heavily influenced by culture, attitudes, emotions, religious values, ethics, and ancient history which they believe is still relevant in the 21st Century.

This is, as expressed here, a struggle (Syrian-on-Syrian) that seems clear, cut'n'dry to us (Americans), but is actually a deep division in the Syrian Society. If it was so simple as the media, the Diplomatic Corps, and the Brain Dead Leadership in Washington seem to suggest, then the Syrian, as one people and one voice, would have already enacted change. But it is clearly not that simple. Not all Syrians want change and hence, the struggle.

America is an outsider. It is not our place to intervene and interrupt the normal course of Syrian development; as barbaric, bloodthirsty, and horrific as they make it. I can only imagine how damn proud the Ba'athist and the Government feel in the leadership they have shown that brings them to this outcome in history.

America must stay out of it. No matter which side America would choose to support, it will eventually come back to haunt us. Let the Syrians, as a people, demonstrate to the world just exactly how civilized they are.

Most Respectfully,
R
Note that I am not making the argument to go in, but instead to send weapons, and that too should not necessarily be done, but be considered if (and only if) it is a matter of fighting a subjectively cruel and evil regime. If we as a world decided that we will stop genocide (as the UN has, although doesn't always take seriously) and we would stop another Hitler, then this question has to be re-answered for a case like Syria.
myp is offline  
Reply

  Political Fray > The Political Fray > Current Events

Tags
arm , rebels , syrian



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Russian warships ready for Syrian evacuation myp Current Events 2 December 18th, 2012 12:01 PM
Syrian Chemical Weapons tecoyah Current Events 2 December 6th, 2012 09:54 AM
Former Libyan rebels are integratd to Syrian oppositation fighters--is it moitvated t mkbashar1979 Current Events 3 August 17th, 2012 11:09 AM
Syrian Rebels attack Damascus. David Current Events 16 August 16th, 2012 08:45 AM
Syrian Peace Idea SlipperyJack Government and Politics 18 August 11th, 2012 02:29 PM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2009-2013 Political Fray. All rights reserved.