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Old May 23rd, 2012, 08:31 PM   #1
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Pakistani doctor who helped find Bin Laden found guilty of treason in Pakistan

The US wants him freed and are offering for him to live here. The conviction could strain US-Pakistan relations.

Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...-33-years.html

Thoughts?
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Old May 23rd, 2012, 09:44 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myp View Post
The US wants him freed and are offering for him to live here. The conviction could strain US-Pakistan relations.

Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...-33-years.html

Thoughts?
Legally he is a traitor. Realistically, he did the world a favor helping us off that loon.
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Old May 24th, 2012, 11:56 AM   #3
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David, myp, et al,

This is really a foreign policy problem and the way we characterize countries like Pakistan.

Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myp View Post
The US wants him freed and are offering for him to live here. The conviction could strain US-Pakistan relations.

Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...-33-years.html

Thoughts?
Legally he is a traitor. Realistically, he did the world a favor helping us off that loon.
(COMMENT)

Pakistan is not a true ally of the US. We "pretend" that they are an ally, but in reality, they exhibit all the characteristics of a "State that Supports Terrorism." The Government of Pakistan, and at the very least, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), knew where Osama bin Laden was the entire time. Dr Shakil Afridi was prosecuted because the ISI didn't want the US to know where Osama bin Laden was.

Even today, it is widely believed that the ISI cooperates with the Taliban and the Haqqani networks. But the US has to deal with Pakistan for two important reasons:
  • Because Pakistan has the potential to become a rouge nation with a nuclear weapons capability.
  • And the US and NATO forces in Afghanistan (ISAF) needs Pakistan will reconsider reopening of supply routes to Afghanistan.

When you have a Foreign Policy that is almost totally dependent on using Foreign and Military Aid s a form of bribery to gain their assistance, they become, not only, a parasite on America, but a prostitute to America and ever other two-for-a-nickel hostile element (insurgents, anti-government activity, terrorist, foreign intelligence service etc) they can squeeze something of value from. The ISI and Pakistani Government has the morals of a cockroach, and are even less trustworthy. They will stab you in the back in a heartbeat.

It is a shame that we even deal with them, instead of shunning them like the pariah they are.

The US should conclude any agreement we have with them and then drop all aid, cut-off every dime, and forbid any American from doing business with them that is not absolutely essential to the national interest.

Most Respectfully,
R
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Old May 24th, 2012, 05:30 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoccoR View Post
David, myp, et al,

This is really a foreign policy problem and the way we characterize countries like Pakistan.


(COMMENT)

Pakistan is not a true ally of the US. We "pretend" that they are an ally, but in reality, they exhibit all the characteristics of a "State that Supports Terrorism." The Government of Pakistan, and at the very least, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), knew where Osama bin Laden was the entire time. Dr Shakil Afridi was prosecuted because the ISI didn't want the US to know where Osama bin Laden was.

Even today, it is widely believed that the ISI cooperates with the Taliban and the Haqqani networks. But the US has to deal with Pakistan for two important reasons:
  • Because Pakistan has the potential to become a rouge nation with a nuclear weapons capability.
  • And the US and NATO forces in Afghanistan (ISAF) needs Pakistan will reconsider reopening of supply routes to Afghanistan.

When you have a Foreign Policy that is almost totally dependent on using Foreign and Military Aid s a form of bribery to gain their assistance, they become, not only, a parasite on America, but a prostitute to America and ever other two-for-a-nickel hostile element (insurgents, anti-government activity, terrorist, foreign intelligence service etc) they can squeeze something of value from. The ISI and Pakistani Government has the morals of a cockroach, and are even less trustworthy. They will stab you in the back in a heartbeat.

It is a shame that we even deal with them, instead of shunning them like the pariah they are.

The US should conclude any agreement we have with them and then drop all aid, cut-off every dime, and forbid any American from doing business with them that is not absolutely essential to the national interest.

Most Respectfully,
R
1. The US supports terrorism as well, we don't even deny it as our open support and protection of people like "Bambi" shows.

2. Pakistan has nukes so we play nice.
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Old May 25th, 2012, 06:08 AM   #5
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David, et al,

Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
2. Pakistan has nukes so we play nice.
(COMMENT)

Yes, I believe I did mention this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
1. The US supports terrorism as well, we don't even deny it as our open support and protection of people like "Bambi" shows.
(COMMENT)

I've heard this many times. And I am always interested in finding out how people interpret terrorism; since there is no universal definition. Can you give me you examples of how the US engages in “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives?”

Can you give me an example of which terrorist organizations the US supports?

Many Thanks,

Most Respectfully,
R
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Old May 25th, 2012, 07:13 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoccoR View Post
David, et al,


(COMMENT)

Yes, I believe I did mention this.


(COMMENT)

I've heard this many times. And I am always interested in finding out how people interpret terrorism; since there is no universal definition. Can you give me you examples of how the US engages in “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives?”

Can you give me an example of which terrorist organizations the US supports?

Many Thanks,

Most Respectfully,
R
There has been the School of the Americas, IRA, and people like Bambi and Saddam Hessian. Currently you have Xi or whatever they're calling themselves and other anti-Muslim mercenary groups. You also have various militias that aren't supported by the state but are American groups with local popular support.
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Old May 25th, 2012, 12:55 PM   #7
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David, et al,

I see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
There has been the School of the Americas, IRA, and people like Bambi and Saddam Hessian.
(COMMENT)

I was unaware that these envolved “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives?”
  • The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (WHINSEC) [formerly known as the School of the Americas (USASOA)], a Title 10 USC 2166 agency, was to foster "cooperation among the participating nations and promote democratic values, respect for human rights, and knowledge and understanding of U.S. customs and traditions.
  • The IRA (Irish Republican Army formerly known as the Irish Volunteers) purpose was to use armed force to render British rule in Ireland ineffective and thus to assist in achieving the broader objective of an independent republic; similar to the US Revolutionary War Forces. I did not know that the US Government had a direct hand in its support of operations.
  • Bambi (AKA: Posada Carriles) was a Cuban expatriate, caught-up in the Anti-Castro and Cuban Liberation movement. He is the subject of many conspiracy theories. Yes, he was US trained for operations to free Cuba out from under the Castro regime. You might have a point here. He is often portrayed as acting on behalf of the US Government.
  • Saddam Hussein, former President of Iraq, was captured in Iraq and subsequently executed. A whole book can be written on the US association with him. But he was never a controlled US resource.

Yes, there is a lot of US Foreign Policy issues that can be questioned. There are a lot of countries that started out with there first leaders as terrorist. That has to do with decisions made by leaders a long time ago. The US certainly is not perfect, and probably should not be involved in most of the struggles it deals with today. But the world is what it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
Currently you have Xi or whatever they're calling themselves and other anti-Muslim mercenary groups.
(COMMENT)
  • Xi (formerly Blackwater), as well as DynCorp, Triple Canopy, and a half dozen others, are not anti-Muslim mercenaries. In fact they are not in the class of mercenaries at all. They are all US citizens (if they work for the US), not foreign nationals, and are citizens of a nation that is a party to the conflict. How they get paid is irrelevant. When Congress cut the military strength at the end of the cold war, it was known then that the use of contractors was going to be essential. No one complained then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
You also have various militias that aren't supported by the state but are American groups with local popular support.
(COMMENT)

It is against US law to be a mercenary. However, there are many NGO's and US Corporations operating their own intelligence and security services. On top of that, there are sanctioned armed forces such as the US Lafayette Escadrille (WWI - James McConnell, American ACE), the Flying Tigers (WWII - ACE Pappy Boyington, Who Shot Down 28 Zeros), and Air America (Vietnam - In the famous photo of the evacuation of the U.S. Embassy in Saigon, the helicopters lifting stranded diplomats off the rooftop belonged not to the military but to Air America.). No one complained about them when we need combat flyers.

Yes, you can complain now; but, before you do that, how involved are you in changing the way your government does business? (Rhetorical) What have you done to change things? And how do you want them changes?

I would agree with you that the US should rethink American Foreign Policy, and consider discontinuing foreign and military aid to every country; whether that be likes of Israel or Afghanistan, -- Egypt or Mexico. They live or die by their own hand. But, that is just my opinion.

Most Respectfully,
R
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Old June 11th, 2012, 01:27 PM   #8
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Its a shame that Paul didnt get further with the Republican party!
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Old June 11th, 2012, 08:53 PM   #9
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Its a shame that Paul didnt get further with the Republican party!
Because he's a libertarian.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 12:47 AM   #10
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Ya but there needs to be a move away from always choosing from one of the two parties. Why not let them both sit one out and give a chance to a new group?
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Old June 12th, 2012, 02:13 PM   #11
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Ya but there needs to be a move away from always choosing from one of the two parties. Why not let them both sit one out and give a chance to a new group?
Whose choice is it to do that? The voters. The voters don't want to do that. I think a lot more of what happens in politics is due to the incentives and not the parties, despite what some like to think.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 06:36 PM   #12
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Should have had a separate team of SEALs nab him in the middle of the night and brought him to safety for what he did.

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Thoughts?
Yeah, we need to cut off every penny of foreign aid to Pakistan and give it to their good buddies in India.
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Old June 12th, 2012, 07:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comet View Post
Should have had a separate team of SEALs nab him in the middle of the night and brought him to safety for what he did.



Yeah, we need to cut off every penny of foreign aid to Pakistan and give it to their good buddies in India.
1 word:

Nukes
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