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Old April 17th, 2009, 01:52 AM   #1
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EPA report on global warming

The EPA submitted a report that says global warming is, among other things, affecting our health.

I expect to see a lot of reports coming out of the scientific agencies that are part of the federal government because they have been suppressed under the previous administration. I know that the EPA internal view has been dire for a long time, but they were ignored.
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Old April 17th, 2009, 11:13 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curious View Post
The EPA submitted a report that says global warming is, among other things, affecting our health.

I expect to see a lot of reports coming out of the scientific agencies that are part of the federal government because they have been suppressed under the previous administration. I know that the EPA internal view has been dire for a long time, but they were ignored.
Hmm affecting our health in what way?

As far as deaths are concerned, global warming probably is a positive. I guess there have been studies done and it's thought that a decrease in the worlds temperature (1 degree) would be far worse than an increase of 1 degree, as far as casualties.
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Old April 17th, 2009, 11:50 AM   #3
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I would really want to look into this one. I remember some confusion before about these death tolls. Specifically that a number of people were saying that X number of people were being killed by greenhouse gases/global warming.

These numbers usually refer to people in the third world cooking on outdated and smoke producing equipment.

Otherwise....I'm sorta scratching my head as to how global warming in and of itself is doing anything. Unless there's concrete evidence of an upward trend in stroke deaths (that isn't just an odd outlier).
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Old April 17th, 2009, 11:57 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by The Parakeet View Post
I would really want to look into this one. I remember some confusion before about these death tolls. Specifically that a number of people were saying that X number of people were being killed by greenhouse gases/global warming.

These numbers usually refer to people in the third world cooking on outdated and smoke producing equipment.

Otherwise....I'm sorta scratching my head as to how global warming in and of itself is doing anything. Unless there's concrete evidence of an upward trend in stroke deaths (that isn't just an odd outlier).
Yea, I was thinking the only things I can think of would be stroke deaths and skin cancer... other than that I can't think of any direct effects. I guess you could make somewhat of an argument saying that the increasing numbers and intensity of hurricanes etc. is an effect of global warming.
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Old April 17th, 2009, 03:39 PM   #5
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That's not accurate though and generally the biggest problem of global warming supporters. They argue that weather effects are issues of global warming than get mad when we point out seemingly contradictory weather effects. It's a climate problem, not a weather problem.
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Old April 18th, 2009, 01:01 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Delta View Post
Hmm affecting our health in what way?

As far as deaths are concerned, global warming probably is a positive. I guess there have been studies done and it's thought that a decrease in the worlds temperature (1 degree) would be far worse than an increase of 1 degree, as far as casualties.
I think the idea is that the things that cause global warming are things that are bad for our health. The first article I read about it wasn't that well-written.

If it were only one degree, and we were sure of that, we'd be OK, since we already had the one degree durint the last century. Unfortunately, the one degree average is just that, an average. Temperature changes aren't distributed evenly over the globe. So the one degree average over the last century was over 4 degrees (Farhenheit here, so about 2 C) in the Arctic.
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Old April 18th, 2009, 01:09 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by curious View Post
I think the idea is that the things that cause global warming are things that are bad for our health. The first article I read about it wasn't that well-written.
Ah, well that makes a bit more sense then. It probably does cause quite a bit of health problems - the smog and pollution etc. that we insist on pumping out.

Yea, 1 degree average is what I meant, so as you say some places would get it worse than others.
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Old April 18th, 2009, 01:40 AM   #8
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I've allways thought that there were some natural alliances in the global warming debate that were not exploited. One is the health issue. We know that a lot of the stuff we put into the air causes health problems, so why not push eliminating the common elements that cause both problems. We know that we are too dependent on oil, for security reasons and because we give up some ecomic power because of it. So why not push for efficiencies that will reduce the use of fossil fuels and have an impact on the global warming problem?
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Old April 18th, 2009, 02:08 AM   #9
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That's not accurate though and generally the biggest problem of global warming supporters. They argue that weather effects are issues of global warming than get mad when we point out seemingly contradictory weather effects. It's a climate problem, not a weather problem.
In my knowledge, climate and weather are two different things. Here is their meanings:

Climate encompasses the temperatures, humidity, atmospheric pressure, winds, rainfall, atmospheric particle count and numerous other meteorological elements in a given region over long periods of time while weather refers to the current activities of these elements.
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Old April 18th, 2009, 01:50 PM   #10
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Weather has the problem of being fairly complex and at times random. It takes confirmation bias to spot global warming in it.

Curious - I'm not sure why they decided to just go with the whole global warming only angle. Acid rain has proven effects (soil damage, lumber damage, crop damage) and is CO2 based. General pollution is a problem (just look at Mexico City). Lots of angles to take besides the "global warming is just bad...look at the polar bears" angle. They should have used penguins anyway...penguins are cute .
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Old April 18th, 2009, 07:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Parakeet View Post
Weather has the problem of being fairly complex and at times random. It takes confirmation bias to spot global warming in it.

Curious - I'm not sure why they decided to just go with the whole global warming only angle. Acid rain has proven effects (soil damage, lumber damage, crop damage) and is CO2 based. General pollution is a problem (just look at Mexico City). Lots of angles to take besides the "global warming is just bad...look at the polar bears" angle. They should have used penguins anyway...penguins are cute .
Well... I can say penguins can last longer on icy waters than the polaer bear. Ever heard of penguins are good swimmers? Melting of ice caps are their main problem. It will generally rise the Earth's oceans. Even a centimeter rise would mean alot.
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Old April 18th, 2009, 08:17 PM   #12
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But penguins are cuter. They could edit the film to have some little penguin cowering on a shrinking iceberg. Only cold-hearted jerks would point out the fact that they like swimming.

The melting might not be a big problem. Most of the ones melting were already in the water, so it won't effect it. It will take a lot more to actually melt a real icecap.
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Old April 18th, 2009, 09:12 PM   #13
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But penguins are cuter. They could edit the film to have some little penguin cowering on a shrinking iceberg. Only cold-hearted jerks would point out the fact that they like swimming.

The melting might not be a big problem. Most of the ones melting were already in the water, so it won't effect it. It will take a lot more to actually melt a real icecap.
Penguins are indeed cuter than the ferocious polar bears, see Happy Feet for reference . But when talking about polar caps or Artic and Antartic regions, the first thing that most people, I knew, was polar bears.
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Old April 19th, 2009, 01:58 AM   #14
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Yea, I was thinking the only things I can think of would be stroke deaths and skin cancer... other than that I can't think of any direct effects. I guess you could make somewhat of an argument saying that the increasing numbers and intensity of hurricanes etc. is an effect of global warming.
I would add extreme weather changes globally adding to natural disasters which in their own right have a catstrophic affect on the world. Gradually warming of the earth with the subsequent fall in temperatures and going into a new glacier age. The kind that destroyed the dinosours.
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Old April 19th, 2009, 10:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Parakeet View Post
Weather has the problem of being fairly complex and at times random. It takes confirmation bias to spot global warming in it.

Curious - I'm not sure why they decided to just go with the whole global warming only angle. Acid rain has proven effects (soil damage, lumber damage, crop damage) and is CO2 based. General pollution is a problem (just look at Mexico City). Lots of angles to take besides the "global warming is just bad...look at the polar bears" angle. They should have used penguins anyway...penguins are cute .
My brother once pointed out that it is important to save penguins because it impossible to look at a penquin and not smile, and that is a really important thing.
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Old April 19th, 2009, 10:45 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Parakeet View Post
Curious - I'm not sure why they decided to just go with the whole global warming only angle. Acid rain has proven effects (soil damage, lumber damage, crop damage) and is CO2 based. General pollution is a problem (just look at Mexico City). Lots of angles to take besides the "global warming is just bad...look at the polar bears" angle. They should have used penguins anyway...penguins are cute .
Maybe power and position and that 15 minutes of fame? If you achieve your ends by supporting groups with other goals, you aren't the leader, and you don't get the publicity and recognition.

Climate is much easier to deal with than weather, because weather requires precise and immediate predictions, where climate plays out over a long time. Because of that, we can get historical climate data from ice cores and tree rings. You can't tell from a tree ring what the weather was like on Juy 10, 1932, but you can tell weather it was a dry year or not.

I find that the global warming deniers are the ones who always quote weather at me. If we have three years of abnormally warm weather and one cool year, I get a lot of 'See!'
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Old April 19th, 2009, 10:46 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deanhills View Post
I would add extreme weather changes globally adding to natural disasters which in their own right have a catstrophic affect on the world. Gradually warming of the earth with the subsequent fall in temperatures and going into a new glacier age. The kind that destroyed the dinosours.
It's widely believed that the extinction of the dinosaurs was due to an asteroid colliding with earth 65 mya (also causing extinction of 70% of the plant and animal genera).

The last glaciation reached it's peak at about 18,000 years ago... even then, only 30% of the earth was covered in ice.
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Old April 19th, 2009, 10:53 PM   #18
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The southern hemisphere isn't affected by ice ages. Apparently because the proportion of water to land is higher, the hemisphere stays warmer. And the last major ice age only came down as far as central Pennsylvania.
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Old April 20th, 2009, 04:24 AM   #19
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Quote:
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The southern hemisphere isn't affected by ice ages. Apparently because the proportion of water to land is higher, the hemisphere stays warmer. And the last major ice age only came down as far as central Pennsylvania.
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The last glaciation reached it's peak at about 18,000 years ago... even then, only 30% of the earth was covered in ice.
Thanks for all the good news. Another indicator for moving South, maybe even South America. Islands are out, coastal cities not a good idea, so maybe somewhere inland in South America, hopefully far away from the maddening crowds and Governments.
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Old April 20th, 2009, 08:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
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It's widely believed that the extinction of the dinosaurs was due to an asteroid colliding with earth 65 mya (also causing extinction of 70% of the plant and animal genera).

The last glaciation reached it's peak at about 18,000 years ago... even then, only 30% of the earth was covered in ice.
I also believe that that was what happened why the dinosaurs got extinct. Do you think it will also happen to us in the near future? But If that will happen, the Earth forces can defend us by using rockets to destroy it. Simply like what happened to the falling satellite months ago.
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