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Old October 30th, 2017, 11:48 AM   #21
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I know but fuel was easy to get once the roads were clear and in any case could have been airlifted. As I said generation was never a major issue just seems to me that Musk turned it into a marketing ploy at the tax payers expense. Good for him! A great opportunity but a waste of time and money for the hospital that is lumbered with all that useless stuff... and no car park.
Again I assume Mr. Musk’s largesse will not extent to the islands distribution network?
How did we taxpayers fit into this?
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Old October 30th, 2017, 12:16 PM   #22
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How did we taxpayers fit into this?
wasn't if funded by FEMA?
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Old October 30th, 2017, 12:28 PM   #23
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wasn't if funded by FEMA?
Tesla has nothing to with FEMA.
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Old October 30th, 2017, 12:47 PM   #24
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Tesla has nothing to with FEMA.
....of course not....I was wondering if the amount came out of the FEMA budgetted allocation for PR operations?
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Old October 30th, 2017, 12:54 PM   #25
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....of course not....I was wondering if the amount came out of the FEMA budgetted allocation for PR operations?
"Virgin Group founder Richard Branson, who weathered Hurricanes Irma and Maria on his private island in the British Virgin Islands with its own renewable energy-powered microgrid, is launching a green energy fund to rebuild the Caribbean with wind and solar power.
Companies like Tesla, Duracell, and German energy storage firm Sonnen are already sending battery and solar supplies to Puerto Rico, building a toe-hold in what may be a lucrative rebuilding project. Solar power companies like SunRun and Vivint Solar are also joining the relief effort, pledging to bring hardware to the US territory."

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envir...ries-microgrid
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Old October 30th, 2017, 03:38 PM   #26
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Not thinking of a big one any one, any hurricane would scatter the array and PR is prone to hurricanes. The issue in Puerto Rico is not generation its distribution is Musk going to install free of charge distrubution lines, nodes etc.?
Not really. Air currents tend to push them out to sea before they get to the islands, west then north into the GoM or north into Cuba/Hispaniola. Direct hits almost never happen.
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Old October 31st, 2017, 03:13 AM   #27
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I'm all in favour of looking at alternatives to fossile fuels but in this instance it just seems to me that the media have been bowled over by the purile hype and gush from Tesla.

IF there was such an issue with this hospital why didn't Tesla simply provide fuel for the generators or provide a new generator? They managed at very short notice to ship in, erect and instal a solary array so what was the problem in getting a tanker to the hospital? The array they have installed; what engineering studies did they do to assess the load demands and the ideal systems required to meet those demands, the technical expertise of the people to run it???

The hospital has lost its car park which in light of the disaster maybe a small thing but if Tesla was really so horrified at the situation why not put in a structure that elevated the array so that patients can still park there - get to and from the hospital with minimum fuss. Its not that difficult and if Tesla was so concerned about the plight of the hospital and its power system then maybe they could have worked with other like minded companies of similar largesse to put in a car park array....


It just seems to me that this hospital has now got the worst of all worlds whilst Tesla have showboated on social media and the worlds press about how concerned they are and how wonderful they are...

Solar is fine in the right place with the right infrastructure and the right level of technical expertise.

If Tesla is so concerned about PR and its electrical systems then maybe they should start with the infrastructure...
Quote:
But Puerto Rico’s energy problems run deep. Long before Hurricane Maria ripped into Puerto Rico on September 20, it was clear that one of the island’s greatest vulnerabilities was its decrepit, sagging power system almost entirely dependent on fossil fuels. Under the brute force of the Category 4 storm, the aging and poorly maintained power plants and transmission lines sustained such significant damage that nearly a month later, power has only been restored to 26 percent of the island.
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envir...ries-microgrid

Call me a cynic but grandstanding and calling it aid is just crap.

Last edited by Fitz; October 31st, 2017 at 03:16 AM.
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Old October 31st, 2017, 03:32 AM   #28
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...snip...

IF there was such an issue with this hospital why didn't Tesla simply provide fuel for the generators or provide a new generator? They managed at very short notice to ship in, erect and instal a solary array so what was the problem in getting a tanker to the hospital? .
Probably because Tesla is not in the petroleum industry and does not have fuel tankers.
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Old October 31st, 2017, 03:41 AM   #29
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Probably because Tesla is not in the petroleum industry and does not have fuel tankers.
do they have phones?
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Old October 31st, 2017, 05:04 AM   #30
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do they have phones?
of course they do...but, would you call up your competition to help someone when you could do it yourself and promote yourself at the same time?
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Old October 31st, 2017, 05:39 AM   #31
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would you call up your competition to help someone when you could do it yourself and promote yourself at the same time?
yeah nothing to do with aid then really...they brought all the gear in on the back of a Tesla car and delivered by an electric ship and solar power planes... these boys are happy to consume the output of the petroleum industry to get their stuff in and showcase their dinky wee panels in the name of aid but not to actually provide functionality.

I guess you got it right. Just whack in any old crap as long as it has the Tesla name on it then get on to twitter and the media, hype it up and pretend you're doing it for the benefit of some distressed kiddies - nothing like a kids hospital to stirr the emotions. No old folks homes or donkey sanctuaries with nice big carparks nearby where there?

I'm sorry I don't mean to sound snarky its just the hypocrisy of it is so delicious... when companies like this try and pass off blatant publicity stunts as aid it just makes it laughable.
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Old October 31st, 2017, 06:00 AM   #32
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Seems Puerto Rico is going to be canceling their contract with Whitefish. It is an interesting story.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...t-cancellation
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Old October 31st, 2017, 06:07 AM   #33
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yeah nothing to do with aid then really...they brought all the gear in on the back of a Tesla car and delivered by an electric ship and solar power planes... these boys are happy to consume the output of the petroleum industry to get their stuff in and showcase their dinky wee panels in the name of aid but not to actually provide functionality.

I guess you got it right. Just whack in any old crap as long as it has the Tesla name on it then get on to twitter and the media, hype it up and pretend you're doing it for the benefit of some distressed kiddies - nothing like a kids hospital to stirr the emotions. No old folks homes or donkey sanctuaries with nice big carparks nearby where there?

I'm sorry I don't mean to sound snarky its just the hypocrisy of it is so delicious... when companies like this try and pass off blatant publicity stunts as aid it just makes it laughable.
I see...are you anti-Capitalism?
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Old October 31st, 2017, 07:31 AM   #34
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I see...are you anti-Capitalism?
nah... anti-bullshit
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Old October 31st, 2017, 07:34 AM   #35
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nah... anti-bullshit
Since when is giving a present to someone in the hopes it might make them like you considered BS?
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Old October 31st, 2017, 08:19 AM   #36
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Since when is giving a present to someone in the hopes it might make them like you considered BS?
Because some people have an irrational fear of technology. Seeing a solar company doing a bunch of PR that will also establish themselves as a major player in the power industry is scary. I could be even more cynical and say Fitz is an oil shrill but his posting history doesn't support that.
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Old October 31st, 2017, 08:35 AM   #37
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Since when is giving a present to someone in the hopes it might make them like you considered BS?
How to put it...okay I don't doubt that there are applications for solar power look at the roof array I posted above, in the right place and for the right application; for electric cars parked with power outlets they are a great idea. People with the spare cash to own a second or third car for short trips to the shops or commute to work yes that works. I'm not sure if that works in PR though they don't seem to be the right demographic?

PR is a basket case technically and financially. So in terms of presents, if the US wants to invest serious amounts of cash to upgrade and bring online usable nodes coupled to substantial, synchronised distribution and transmission capability along with the required mechanical equipment based on present and future load plans then fine. However, as a present you can't just plonk a solar array in a car park and link it up to a grid it has to be planned and based on the capability and capacity of the system as a whole so that the system is not stressed.

Point is this costs money...serious amounts of money.

The set up in that hospital car park probably cost USD2M (based on my napkin) against a genset of equivalent capacity capable of running 24hours of USD30K. If PR has such a budget hole as was reported i.e. billions upon billions then what is the point of receiving solar bits and bobs at a massive price? Bearing in mind they will also need conventional generators installed as well... on top of all the other stuff I mentioned.

It takes many years to design, simulate, test and build a new grid - and the land. That car park array may...MAY supply the needs of that hospital (it still needs conventional generator) so how much land will it take to make a "difference" to the grid capacity of PR and at what cost? Is the US tax payer going to foot the bill as a present? are the consumers going to be able to afford to switch on their lights!!??
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Old October 31st, 2017, 08:47 AM   #38
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Quote:
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Because some people have an irrational fear of technology. Seeing a solar company doing a bunch of PR that will also establish themselves as a major player in the power industry is scary. I could be even more cynical and say Fitz is an oil shrill but his posting history doesn't support that.
I'm for an intelligent approach to a sustainable furture not PR stunts by egocentric billionaires that have fed off the fears of the middle classes.

Last edited by Fitz; October 31st, 2017 at 08:51 AM.
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Old October 31st, 2017, 08:53 AM   #39
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How to put it...okay I don't doubt that there are applications for solar power look at the roof array I posted above, in the right place and for the right application; for electric cars parked with power outlets they are a great idea. People with the spare cash to own a second or third car for short trips to the shops or commute to work yes that works. I'm not sure if that works in PR though they don't seem to be the right demographic?

PR is a basket case technically and financially. So in terms of presents, if the US wants to invest serious amounts of cash to upgrade and bring online usable nodes coupled to substantial, synchronised distribution and transmission capability along with the required mechanical equipment based on present and future load plans then fine. However, as a present you can't just plonk a solar array in a car park and link it up to a grid it has to be planned and based on the capability and capacity of the system as a whole so that the system is not stressed.

Point is this costs money...serious amounts of money.

The set up in that hospital car park probably cost USD2M (based on my napkin) against a genset of equivalent capacity capable of running 24hours of USD30K. If PR has such a budget hole as was reported i.e. billions upon billions then what is the point of receiving solar bits and bobs at a massive price? Bearing in mind they will also need conventional generators installed as well... on top of all the other stuff I mentioned.

It takes many years to design, simulate, test and build a new grid - and the land. That car park array may...MAY supply the needs of that hospital (it still needs conventional generator) so how much land will it take to make a "difference" to the grid capacity of PR and at what cost? Is the US tax payer going to foot the bill as a present? are the consumers going to be able to afford to switch on their lights!!??
I see your points, makes sense.
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Old October 31st, 2017, 09:23 AM   #40
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I'm for an intelligent approach to a sustainable furture not PR stunts by egocentric billionaires that have fed off the fears of the middle classes.
Me too, but Americans seem reluctant to embrace nuclear energy despite the extremely good US safety record.
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