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Old January 9th, 2018, 06:29 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iolo View Post
There will be far fewer if you learn from other countries and stop leading with your chin. Is any other country currently as hysterically divided as the gerrymandered USA?
Of course.... look at the UK look at France look at Spain with Catalonia...
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Old January 9th, 2018, 09:04 AM   #22
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Of course.... look at the UK look at France look at Spain with Catalonia...
You forgot Belgium.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 09:15 AM   #23
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You forgot Belgium.
the whole of Europe is in a state of flux at the moment and the EU doesn't have a coherent narrative to be able to gain control of the situation! Look at Poland, they have the EU presidency at the moment and they are on the point of being sanctioned by the EU for "subverting the rule of law"!! This is a big deal for the EU. However, Poland seems to have fired a number of ministers today in order to dampen down the tensions as they put it.

The EU budgetary committee is just about to start discussions in respect of the next 7 year budget settelemts and guess who gets the largest slice of the EU coffers.... tah dah.... Poland

I wonder why they wanted to fire these ministers and start making friends again....hmmmm
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Old January 9th, 2018, 09:23 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Fitz View Post
the whole of Europe is in a state of flux at the moment and the EU doesn't have a coherent narrative to be able to gain control of the situation! Look at Poland, they have the EU presidency at the moment and they are on the point of being sanctioned by the EU for "subverting the rule of law"!! This is a big deal for the EU. However, Poland seems to have fired a number of ministers today in order to dampen down the tensions as they put it.

The EU budgetary committee is just about to start discussions in respect of the next 7 year budget settelemts and guess who gets the largest slice of the EU coffers.... tah dah.... Poland

I wonder why they wanted to fire these ministers and start making friends again....hmmmm
The problem with the EU is that instead of a clear constitution you guys have a confusing mess of treaties. A well defined, democratic federation (or even confederation if nations wanted to retain the current level of mutual independence) would fix most of your problems. As it stands you're just a bunch of squabbling nations bound by contradictory business agreements waging a cold war with each other via bureaucrats while the little guy is left saying "WTF!".
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Old January 9th, 2018, 09:57 AM   #25
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David, the concept of the EU as you say could... could work but the bastardisation of the Westphalia concept and this ridiculous neo-Kantian view of metropolitanism that has beguiled the European liberal elite is just unworkable. I can understand why the UK joined back in 1973 as it was just a trading agreement pure and simple. Since then it’s just become a fiasco as you described.

We’re better off out of it..... anyway getting a tad off topic here....
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Old January 9th, 2018, 05:14 PM   #26
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The EU coupled with NATO is insurance against Russia and makes Europe a major economic power. Without thecEU Europian nations would be backwaters in an American-Chinese world.
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Old January 10th, 2018, 04:15 AM   #27
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Of course.... look at the UK look at France look at Spain with Catalonia...
I don't follow. Colonialism is quite different from internal division, such as you showed in your first Civil War, which bits fair to break out again soon.
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Old January 10th, 2018, 05:37 AM   #28
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I don't follow. Colonialism is quite different from internal division, such as you showed in your first Civil War, which bits fair to break out again soon.
The last civil war we had was 1649-53?
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Old January 10th, 2018, 11:58 AM   #29
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So the lad's been kicked out of Breitbart and the radio show!
Don't mess with the Mercers.....
What of the revolution now republicans.... whats the message about the establishment now..... as the President jets off skiing in Davos.
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Old January 10th, 2018, 12:11 PM   #30
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Quote:
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So the lad's been kicked out of Breitbart and the radio show!
Don't mess with the Mercers.....
What of the revolution now republicans.... whats the message about the establishment now..... as the President jets off skiing in Davos.
There is no establishment.
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Old January 10th, 2018, 12:56 PM   #31
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There is no establishment.
....of course there is that was the whole basis of the popular movement that Bannon was tyring to manipulate... the Washington establishement.... are you sure you're an American republican???
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Old January 10th, 2018, 01:21 PM   #32
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....of course there is that was the whole basis of the popular movement that Bannon was tyring to manipulate... the Washington establishement.... are you sure you're an American republican???
They were barking up the wrong tree.
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Old January 10th, 2018, 04:34 PM   #33
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'
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Originally Posted by Iolo View Post
Representation whereby political parties have roughly proportional representation in 'natural' rather than deliberately distorted constituencies. In other words, you don't stick nearly all the X party voters in one huge constituency where they get a landslide, the Y party ones in several where they can narrowly win every time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcstites View Post
You have just defined something which is impossible to achieve. Thus a very basic problem is that there will always be complaints about Gerrymandering....

The bottom line is that regardless of how you shape the district, it will be considered unfair by the other party.
Iam beginning to think that you are addicted to "winning" arguments with logical fallacies.

What you are propounding is similar to arguing that if I go to a bank and pick up a dime from the floor which the bank manager has dropped, then I am as guilty of stealing as a thief who comes into the bank and robs it of a million dollars!

There are the little matters of degrees of difference --- not to mention the dangerousness of "either-or" thinking!

One need only look at what happened in North Carolina to see the evil rottenness of gerrymandering in the USA.

Still unclear about gerrymandering? See exactly how it worked in North Carolina
.
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Last edited by numan; January 10th, 2018 at 04:42 PM.
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