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Old December 17th, 2009, 08:27 AM   #1
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Republicans, Religion and the Triumph of Unreason

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Something strange has happened in America in the nine months since Barack Obama was elected. It has best been summarised by the comedian Bill Maher: "The Democrats have moved to the right, and the Republicans have moved to a mental hospital."


The election of Obama ? a black man with an anti-conservative message ? as a successor to George W. Bush has scrambled the core American right's view of their country. In their gut, they saw the US as a white-skinned, right-wing nation forever shaped like Sarah Palin.


When this image was repudiated by a majority of Americans in a massive landslide, it simply didn't compute. How could this have happened? How could the cry of "Drill, baby, drill" have been beaten by a supposedly big government black guy? So a streak that has always been there in the American right's world-view ? to deny reality, and argue against a demonic phantasm of their own creation ? has swollen. Now it is all they can see.


Since Obama's rise, the US right has been skipping frantically from one fantasy to another, like a person in the throes of a mental breakdown.
...
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...n-1773994.html

Last edited by myp; December 17th, 2009 at 11:07 AM. Reason: edited by myp (admin)- full text quotations not allowed (some sites see it as stealing content) so I cut it down
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Old December 17th, 2009, 10:02 AM   #2
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I don't care where he was born or what church he goes to. And I sure don't care what color he is. I just want that arrogant group (Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid to stop spending money we don't have. I know they have some very creative ways of taxing people. That is coming up next. But too many people can't pay anymore for anything to ever balance this checkbook.
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Old December 17th, 2009, 11:11 AM   #3
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Let's get it straight that not every Republican feels this way. The author of the piece is clearly biased (in fact, he has called himself a "European social democrat" in the past) and is definitely exaggerating. A lot of media outlets focus on the crazier, conspiracy theorists simply because controversy is good for their bottom lines or agendas. In reality, the majority of Republicans are not like this. Just as with any group (Democrats included) you will have some fringe members in them.
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Old December 17th, 2009, 11:47 AM   #4
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These hidden, silent Republicans better start a new party than ...

Their people are among the group that think Obama was going to have death panels for the elderly etc etc ...

This is reactionary blowback from having "right" ideology blow up in republican faces after 30 years of domination.

Noones living standard went up except the elite.

The country lost a massive amount of its wealth

The world doesnt respect the u.s. anymore

Your health care system is archaic

Americans are losing ground on everything compared to the rest of the world and all of this happened when conservatives ran the show.

Now the right has really lost its mind, if someone doesnt agree with the republicans then they need to start their own party cause the republicans DO stand for exactly all the insanity going on in the u.s.
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Old December 17th, 2009, 11:55 AM   #5
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The right has NOT lost its mind. There are just as many extremists on the left wing who such just as crazy things. As for blowback, people need to realize that while Republicans ruled for a bit, the neoconservative movement was against the ideas of true conservatism as it supported a bigger state and pro-war policies. Policy-wise, these people were not on the right.

Also, you make it seem like the current left movement behind President Obama is here to stay. If you look at polling numbers, Republicans lead in general polls over Democrats in the majority of districts. More importantly though, even within the Republican party, there is a movement which is starting to push the GOP back to its old, true conservative self and away from the neoconservatism experienced under Bush and company.
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Old December 17th, 2009, 12:18 PM   #6
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I don't doubt that the u.s. will swing conservative again, its a conservative country, but being conservative is whats causing your problems.

Moving to a place of less government is not going to happen and frankly it shouldn't, the world is complicated, we need competent government.

What your talking about is libertarianism and if thats what your looking for you will have to look for another party, the republicans are currently still going insane (if you doubt this just look at Sarah Palins popularity).
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Old December 17th, 2009, 12:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArghMonkey View Post
I don't doubt that the u.s. will swing conservative again, its a conservative country, but being conservative is whats causing your problems.

Moving to a place of less government is not going to happen and frankly it shouldn't, the world is complicated, we need competent government.

What your talking about is libertarianism and if thats what your looking for you will have to look for another party, the republicans are currently still going insane (if you doubt this just look at Sarah Palins popularity).
"we need competent government" We damn sure do! Because we don't have one now! Strange how well this country did before all this big government crap took it over. The democrats had the house and the senate when the bottom fell out this time. But that never comes up for some reason.
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Old December 17th, 2009, 12:37 PM   #8
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You mean back when most people were farmers, basic infrastructure was just being layed down, when there were no worker rights, when women were still property of men and when the single biggest progressive thing to have happened to that point was the abolishment of slavery? *LOL*

Rose coloured glasses don't fit you ...
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Old December 17th, 2009, 01:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArghMonkey View Post
You mean back when most people were farmers, basic infrastructure was just being layed down, when there were no worker rights, when women were still property of men and when the single biggest progressive thing to have happened to that point was the abolishment of slavery? *LOL*

Rose coloured glasses don't fit you ...
Neither does having a bunch of arrogant politicians running everything in my life. I do not need any of them. I would do better if they all went home and burned the checkbook. If you need to have a "caretaker" there plenty of those looking for work. I don't need a caretaker or someone to spend my money for me. See I am an adult. I outgrew needing "daddy" to survive.
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Old December 17th, 2009, 04:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArghMonkey View Post
I don't doubt that the u.s. will swing conservative again, its a conservative country, but being conservative is whats causing your problems.
Again, if you look at the policies, you will quickly see it is anti-conservative policies that we have been moving towards and it is those same policies that are causing many of our problems. Europe and Canada is not going to remain prosperous for long either unless they ditch the socialist models. At this point, the east is looking like the place to be- China, India, Singapore. Brazil is showing some potency as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArghMonkey View Post
Moving to a place of less government is not going to happen and frankly it shouldn't, the world is complicated, we need competent government.
In the end government will NEVER be as competent as markets and the private sector. Most innovation and production comes through private firms, not the government- regardless of how much money they try to throw at problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArghMonkey View Post
What your talking about is libertarianism and if thats what your looking for you will have to look for another party, the republicans are currently still going insane (if you doubt this just look at Sarah Palins popularity).
The roots of conservatism are very libertarian. Paleoconservatism is very libertarian relative to today's fake "conservative."

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArghMonkey View Post
You mean back when most people were farmers, basic infrastructure was just being layed down, when there were no worker rights, when women were still property of men and when the single biggest progressive thing to have happened to that point was the abolishment of slavery? *LOL*

Rose coloured glasses don't fit you ...
No one is speaking against freedom and the protection of equality for women and people of all races. The industrial revolutions in Europe and America took place under relatively small government and even with workers rights and such, this would have still happened. Singapore, Hong Kong, India, Brazil, etc. are great examples as to how freer markets produce prosperity and right now Europe, America, Canada, etc. are great examples as to why government can not produce sustainable prosperity.
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Old December 18th, 2009, 06:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myp View Post
Let's get it straight that not every Republican feels this way. The author of the piece is clearly biased (in fact, he has called himself a "European social democrat" in the past) and is definitely exaggerating. A lot of media outlets focus on the crazier, conspiracy theorists simply because controversy is good for their bottom lines or agendas.
I'm so glad my own paper isn't so biased. (That was a huge joke, by the way, i get an extraordinarily biased anarchist paper called "Resistance!").

Quote:
In reality, the majority of Republicans are not like this. Just as with any group (Democrats included) you will have some fringe members in them.
I agree. With the Democrats, there might actually be some left-wingers. Well, one or two, anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArghMonkey View Post
What your talking about is libertarianism and if thats what your looking for you will have to look for another party, the republicans are currently still going insane (if you doubt this just look at Sarah Palins popularity).
Hey, there are still some heroes - Up Ron Paul!

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Originally Posted by DodgeFB View Post
Neither does having a bunch of arrogant politicians running everything in my life. I do not need any of them. I would do better if they all went home and burned the checkbook. If you need to have a "caretaker" there plenty of those looking for work. I don't need a caretaker or someone to spend my money for me. See I am an adult. I outgrew needing "daddy" to survive.
You just earned yourself three hundred and seven cool points.
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Old December 20th, 2009, 05:24 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk View Post



You just earned yourself three hundred and seven cool points.
Thanks! I need a few cool points!
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Old December 21st, 2009, 08:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk View Post
I'm so glad my own paper isn't so biased. (That was a huge joke, by the way, i get an extraordinarily biased anarchist paper called "Resistance!").



I agree. With the Democrats, there might actually be some left-wingers. Well, one or two, anyway.



Hey, there are still some heroes - Up Ron Paul!



You just earned yourself three hundred and seven cool points.
Dang, a socialist supporting Ron.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 10:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArghMonkey View Post
These hidden, silent Republicans better start a new party than ...

Their people are among the group that think Obama was going to have death panels for the elderly etc etc ...

This is reactionary blowback from having "right" ideology blow up in republican faces after 30 years of domination.

Noones living standard went up except the elite.

The country lost a massive amount of its wealth

The world doesnt respect the u.s. anymore

Your health care system is archaic

Americans are losing ground on everything compared to the rest of the world and all of this happened when conservatives ran the show.

Now the right has really lost its mind, if someone doesnt agree with the republicans then they need to start their own party cause the republicans DO stand for exactly all the insanity going on in the u.s.
I can't understand how anyone can have a clear picture of exactly what the Republican Party presently stands for. Most of the content of your thread fits in with Fox News reports and the media focussing on extreme right movements etc. The closest I can get is "confused". It probably will require a leadership as well as a few thinktank sessions of the Republicans to decide where they stand on most of the issues, and when they come out, I'm sure it will sound very different to the contents of your opening posting.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 11:31 AM   #15
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Dang, a socialist supporting Ron.
I like his opposition to Government, anti-authoritarian social policies and anti-war position. Could be a lot worse. I do oppose politicians in general, though.
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Old December 29th, 2009, 04:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk View Post
I like his opposition to Government, anti-authoritarian social policies and anti-war position. Could be a lot worse. I do oppose politicians in general, though.
Well he is an ally of Sen. Sanders...
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Old December 30th, 2009, 03:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Well he is an ally of Sen. Sanders...
Who opposed impeaching Bush...

Ah well, next time, eh?

I'm agnostic with Ron Paul (as far as politicians go, which isn't far at all, in my book). I support him because i'm a libertarian, but i oppose him because i'm a socialist.

That said, Newt Gingrich claims to be a libertarian, and i think he's a lying, cheating little rat...
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Old January 5th, 2010, 10:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
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I support him because i'm a libertarian, but i oppose him because i'm a socialist.
Wow, being both a libertarian and socialist at the same time, wonder what Ron Paul would have to say about that?
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Old January 6th, 2010, 06:50 AM   #19
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Wow, being both a libertarian and socialist at the same time, wonder what Ron Paul would have to say about that?
Traditionally, "libertarian" has always meant "socialist" in Europe. A Frenchman or German might wonder about being a libertarian and a capitalist at the same time.



Britain, interestingly, actually changed definitions. Which is very odd. What happened was that in the 80s, rich capitalists bought out a hardcore socialist party, called the "United Kingdom Libertarian Party". Since then, "libertarian" began to mean "hyper-capitalist".

In Central and Eastern Europe it still means socialist. There are "libertarians" in Die Linke. France has a very strong Libertarian Socialist tradition, right from the Revolution and even the Enlightenment. In Eastern Europe - particularly Poland, the "libertarians" played a large part in a socialist movement called "Solidarity".
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Old January 6th, 2010, 12:45 PM   #20
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Wow, being both a libertarian and socialist at the same time, wonder what Ron Paul would have to say about that?
Well he and Sen. Sanders worked on a Fed audit bill together and are political allies/personal friends. Sen. Sanders is an open socialist.
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