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Old March 26th, 2011, 03:00 PM   #1
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Trade deficits are ALLWAYS economically detrimental to their nation.

National trade surpluses? contributions or trade deficits? detriments to their nations? GDPs are always understated.

They?re understated to the extent that any goods or service products which support or were induced by the production of globally traded products but are not reflected within the prices of such products are not attributed to global trade. But all production does contribute to the producing nations? GDPs.

USA?s trade deficit denied our nation the production of the products we imported. To the extent that production of goods and service products were not reflected within the prices of USA?s imports, we were additionally denied the infrastructures, the knowledge and experience gained due to the production of USA?s imports, any research, development or other goods and service products that supported or were induced by the production of USA?s imports.

These productions and all of the jobs associated to these productions fully contributed to the nations that produced USA?s imported products.

Refer to: www.USA-Trade-Deficit.Blogspot.com and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Import_Certificates
Respectfully, Supposn
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Old July 25th, 2011, 09:12 AM   #2
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Trade deficits are always detrimental to GDP.

Within the discussion topic ?Globalization?? MYP responded by posting:
Quote:
Originally Posted by myp View Post
^except if you read the thread, (i.e. this thread) he referred to you will see that there is a strong argument that the claim he makes is not true and by no means does he prove it.
I didn?t present any argument because no one indicated any interest in this topic.

Economists cite the gross domestic product, (i.e. GDP) as an indicator of a nation's aggregate production of goods and service products.
The GDP is generally accepted by within our globes entire communities of economists. I have not suggesting a ?manipulation? of the GDP.

Due to the definition and all generally accepted formulas for calculating the GDP, trade deficits are integral to the GDP. Within all those formulas and calculations, trade surpluses logically contribute to and trade deficits are subtracted from the calculation of GDP.

Unlike domestic production, production of a nation's imported goods contributes nothing to that nation?s GDP.

Respectfully, Supposn
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Old August 1st, 2011, 04:23 PM   #3
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If we can't increase our GDP by imports and consumption, we're not looking too good. As a Chapel Hill Dentist, I provide a service and employ people. I pay a lot of taxes and take risks. That's what it is all about in small business. I wish more people in Washington could see that.

Last edited by ChapelHillDentist; August 1st, 2011 at 04:27 PM. Reason: making it readable
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Old August 2nd, 2011, 04:39 AM   #4
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Our shrinking middle class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChapelHillDentist View Post
If we can't increase our GDP by imports and consumption, we're not looking too good. As a Chapel Hill Dentist, I provide a service and employ people. I pay a lot of taxes and take risks. That's what it is all about in small business. I wish more people in Washington could see that.

Chapel Hill Dentist, as an owner and manager of lesser sized enterprise you wear many hats.

My children have some smaller sized enterprises and substantial portion of their incomes are due to their performances as technicians, client relations and lead supervisors for their enterprises. Their value to their enterprises is dependent upon those tasks they actually do and their supervision of others.

Are you old enough to recall Abbot telling Costello ?Remember; I?m the boss and your nothing. You got that!!?? Costello replied ?Sure, you?re the boss over nothing?.
The value of labor supervisors are tied to the aggregate values of the labor they supervise. If the value of labor is decreased, it also demeans the value of labor supervision.

Trade imbalances affect their nations? GDPs are greater than the amounts of the imbalances amounts.
Trade deficits are detrimental to their nations? GDPs.
GDPs bolster the median wage.
A nation with a lesser median wage has a lesser robust and sustainable economy.

Refer to the discussion topic ?Reduce the trade deficit; increase GDP & median wage?.
It begins with a brief explanation of a transferable Import Certificates trade proposal. That proposal would significantly decrease USA?s trade deficit, increase our GDP, induce increases of our exports and median wage and would not increase government?s net spending.
For further explanation of this trade proposal you can also refer to [COLOR=#800080]www.USA-Trade-Deficit.Blogspot.com
or Google: wikipedia, import certificates.

Respectfully, Supposn
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Old August 5th, 2011, 05:56 AM   #5
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Capitalism doesn't work by countries surely - those are only used when the rich want to push down working people's living standards as part of a 'competition' that doesn't hurt them? That's why the arguments always sound so complicated: wouldn't do if we were to understand them!.
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Old November 13th, 2011, 11:53 AM   #6
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Supposn :Import Certificates proposal in my opinion isn't feasible under the WTO . if you want to forgo this agreement , then there will be no need for such law . just slap imports with duty and pay some of it to the exporters . going on on inventing yet another virtual derivative isn't a constructive activity .
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Old November 13th, 2011, 12:40 PM   #7
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Transferable Import Certificates Vs a Tariff policy

Transferable Import Certificates Vs a tariff policy.


The IC policy proposal is often compared to tariff policies.
Both policies would increase the prices paid by USA purchasers of imported goods.
Both policies would not increase federal net spending or debt.

Unlike tariff rates that are set by the government, IC?s open market global value is market driven. The federal assessment fees to defray government?s expenses due to the IC trade policy are a nominal portion of and effectively set only ICs minimum global open market value.

The IC policy would absolutely eliminate the trade deficit of aggregate assessed values of goods subject to it REGARDLESS of imports? additional prices? to US purchasers; (i.e. even if prices for aggregate imported goods increased by only a penny per item, USA?s trade deficit of those aggregate goods assessed values would be eliminated).

Elimination of aggregate assessed goods trade deficit subject to tariffs could only be assured if governments? set tariff rates to the maximum global open market rate that ICs would possibly reach.

ICs would be are less likely than free trade or tariffs to be subjected mischief contrary to USA?s economic interests.
Such mischief is even perpetrated by our own government to our own economic disadvantage.

I particularly recall the U.S. government negotiating away the interests of Louisiana rice farmers because the USA wanted to retain naval bases in Okinawa. Under the IC trade proposal, government has no such policy discretion and the matter would be nonnegotiable.

The Marshall Plan?s expenses were paid for b y all taxpayers. The expenses were not borne by particular industries or wage earners.

Tariffs would be an additional source of federal revenue. IC?s are an additional revenue source for exporters of U.S. goods and would be an indirect but effective subsidy of USA exports.

Respectfully, Supposn
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Old November 14th, 2011, 12:07 AM   #8
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USA?s Trade Agreements

Excerpted and transcribed f rom
? [COLOR=#800080]http://www.usa-trade-deficit.blogspot.com ?:

*** USA?s Trade Agreements.

USA trade agreements such as those with the WTO and the NATA are not treaties approved by a 2/3 vote of the U.S. Senate. Only a tenth of our government's international agreements are actually treaties. They are executive-congressional agreements with explicit provisions for granting 6 months notice of intention to withdraw from the agreement.

[President Carter alone exercised a treaty?s withdrawal clause. Senator Goldwater attempted a federal court challenge to the president?s unilateral action. (The U.S. Senate itself did not formally request the President?s act be reviewed by the Supreme Court). The Supreme Court declared it to be a political matter and declined to hear the case. Similarly President George W. Bush unilaterally withdrew USA?s participation from an ABM Treaty].

Buffett's concept requires congressional acceptance because it requires modification of federal law. It requires government?s issuance of transferable Import certificates to complying exporters and mandates importers to surrender such certificates for the assessed value of their goods entering the USA. It does not require a constitutional amendment or a super majority.
//////////////////
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Old November 14th, 2011, 12:48 AM   #9
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Trade Agreements

Excerpted from ?http://usa-imports.blogspot.com/2006...greements.html ?:

The World Trade Organization will certainly be opposed to these transferable IMPORT Certificates.
I?m told that most trade pacts, (including the WTO) provide for six months notice of resignation. The WTO could regretfully accept USA?s resignation or our trade policy of IMPORT Certificates. Sovereign nations often act in their people?s best interest. I object to USA accepting lesser median wage because it is in China?s best interest?????????????
????????..A world that couldn't prevent the trade and planting of land mines can not readily prevent sale of trucks and washing machines to the USA. If any nations choose to discard their shares of the USA market, other nations will be pleased to pick up the slack.


Nations that refuse to buy from us, (refuse to negotiate cheaper prices for our goods) would deny the opportunity of all, (including their own) entrepeneurs from accquiring IMPORT Certificates. Thus the world, (including themselves) will be to that extent denied the opportunity to sell to us.


All of this is dependent upon the mighty USA domestic market. Each year our trade deficit causes our domestic market to proportionaly diminish as other nations grow greater. It is desirable that we initiate this trade proposal sooner rather than later.
////////////////////////
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Old November 14th, 2011, 07:02 AM   #10
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With or without IC policy proposal I think WTO will face the same fate of bretton wood agreement
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Old March 16th, 2012, 04:04 AM   #11
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The IC proposal's uinilateral.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabdab View Post
With or without IC policy proposal I think WTO will face the same fate of bretton wood agreement
Dabdab, the unilateral Import Certificate policy is eventually and entirely funded by U.S. purchasers of foreign goods and treats all foreign nations in an equal manner.

It would not cause a global trade war but if that’s what it takes to defend USA’s economy and our wage earning families, we shouldn’t betray our own best economic interests.


Respectfully, Supposn
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Old March 31st, 2012, 08:45 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Dabdab, the unilateral Import Certificate policy is eventually and entirely funded by U.S. purchasers of foreign goods and treats all foreign nations in an equal manner.

It would not cause a global trade war but if that’s what it takes to defend USA’s economy and our wage earning families, we shouldn’t betray our own best economic interests.


Respectfully, Supposn
I did not talk about any wars , and I will not shed any tears on WTO , in fact I might celebrate .and I think it is only wise to support those who produce goods and services within the country and pay them handsomely and if you do not do that you are bound to bankrupt your country .
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Old March 31st, 2012, 09:08 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabdab View Post
I did not talk about any wars , and I will not shed any tears on WTO , in fact I might celebrate .and I think it is only wise to support those who produce goods and services within the country and pay them handsomely and if you do not do that you are bound to bankrupt your country .
Dabdab, apparently we’re in agreement upon this point.
[Respectfully, Supposn
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 12:20 PM   #14
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How about talking about the elephant in the room. The big business interests and official Washington D.C. have worked together to promote globalization, which in some ways will probably raise incomes worldwide. What it has also done and is still doing is decreasing jobs in the USA because said jobs were relatively high paid for the skill level.

The reason we haven't felt the pain of this policy (a declining value of the dollar would serve to adjust the balance, just as a rising value of the yuan would also help to make the adjustment) is that we have traded shamelessly on the fact that the U.S. Dollar is the de facto world currency and have run up debt (including hidden debt in dollars and dollar instruments) in the world.

Thus, we have postponed the inevitable adjustment and thus it will be all the more painful when it does come about, like pulling an elastic band tight and then letting one end go again. That will be when we see what this nation and its citizens are truly made of.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 01:07 PM   #15
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skeptic-f, globalization was not some sort of conspiracy or strategy between big business and the government. It is the inevitable future of the world and it is glorious. It is the result of technological advancement that has brought the world closer together- the Internet, mass transport, mass communication, etc. not anything with big business interests.

Globalization furthers the power of trade and comparative advantages and we will all benefit from it- especially humanity as a whole. Sure some sectors and lower skilled labor in the US might take an ass-kicking, but that is only because people in other countries for the first time ever are getting the chance to compete with us. And anyway, in the long run, most unskilled labor is probably doomed to technological advancement (automation) anyway.

What we are seeing is merely a transformation, an evolution, of the economy and its benefits will be tremendous.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 01:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myp View Post

What we are seeing is merely a transformation, an evolution, of the economy and its benefits will be tremendous.
Unless your ass is one of those being kicked. And you should really not expect them to rejoice at going from blue collar worker to standing in the food line asking for help.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 01:31 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Unless your ass is one of those being kicked. And you should really not expect them to rejoice at going from blue collar worker to standing in the food line asking for help.
My answer to that is it's inevitable. There is nothing that can be done about it, but there is a silver lining and humanity will benefit tremendously from it. As for what to do now: adapt, find something that still needs labor or learn skills that people want to hire in. Life is about adaptation. It might seem harsh, but that's the way it is and always has been and always will be.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 01:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myp View Post
My answer to that is it's inevitable. There is nothing that can be done about it, but there is a silver lining and humanity will benefit tremendously from it. As for what to do now: adapt, find something that still needs labor or learn skills that people want to hire in. Life is about adaptation. It might seem harsh, but that's the way it is and always has been and always will be.
That may be hard to find for a while. There are young people with degrees looking for work. If you are over 40 and only have high school or less it may come to begging or crime.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 01:37 PM   #19
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Quote:
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That may be hard to find for a while. There are young people with degrees looking for work. If you are over 40 and only have high school or less it may come to begging or crime.
That is where questions of a social or government safety net come up. Staying in the past won't get us anywhere though- just look at India's attempt to do that with agricultural protectionism ("big farming" like what we see here is still not allowed there due to fears of job losses, etc. - as we saw here though, allowing it led to greater growth in other areas and as we see there it has hurt the people tremendously- especially those without jobs and the poor).
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 01:46 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myp View Post
That is where questions of a social or government safety net come up. Staying in the past won't get us anywhere though- just look at India's attempt to do that with agricultural protectionism ("big farming" like what we see here is still not allowed there due to fears of job losses, etc. - as we saw here though, allowing it led to greater growth in other areas and as we see there it has hurt the people tremendously- especially those without jobs and the poor).
That is true. It is a survival of the fittest thing. The sick, the old and the poor get left behind. I only have one problem with it. Most people don't want to be a drain on the world. But damn their hide they will ask you to live when there is nothing left to live for. There should be places where old farts like me turn themselves in to be put down with as much dignity as your local animal clinic puts down animals. That would save huge amounts of money. No Social Security or Medicare and Medicaid for those people.

Last edited by DodgeFB; April 2nd, 2012 at 01:49 PM.
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