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Old April 16th, 2016, 06:10 PM   #1
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Independent currencies and a UBI.

Before I start, I'd like to say that this is off the top of my head and not some long toght out concept. I'm totally open to the idea that this might prove ridiculous and am open to any honest criticism. This is an Americancentric idea and I'm a Floridian so I'll be using Florida for my example.

1. The Floridian government establishes a new bank, the Bank of Florida (BF), to serve Floridians. While it would operate independently most of the time, it is fully owned by the Floridian government, it's leaders are appointed by the Floridian government and the Floridian government has veto power in the event that the bank takes actions contrary to the goals of the Floridian government.

2. The Floridian government immediately transfers ALL assets to BF (monetary assets, payroll, investment funds, mortgages and other loans, etc.) and BF starts doing private business in order to establish it's assets.

3. The Floridian government issues Residency Cards to native Floridians. Those living at the time would have to provide proof of residency and a birth certificate showing a Floridian birth while newborns born to resident parents would receive a Residency Card at birth. Leaving the state for more than 12 months without maintaining a primary address in Florida (exceptions being made for education, government work and military service) or being convicted of a felony by Floridian or Federal courts would result in the revocation of that person's Residency Card. Revocations are irrevocable except in the event of fraud or clerical errors.

3. BF would, once sufficient assets have been established, begin issuing a new currency called the Floridian Paso (FP). This would only be legal tender in Florida and would coexist with rather than replace the USD. NO physical currency would be issued, all transactions would be digital with BF issued debit and credit cards (only issued in FPs to promote the use of the currency) being the extent of the currency's physical interactions in trade. The FP would be backed by BF's assets (which would ideally include physical assets like gold at this point).

4. On the 1st of each month following a Resident Card holder's 16th birthday* (or the month of if the age of majority is reached on the 1st), each Resident Card holder will receive a UBI of an amount prescribed by the Floridian Congress.

* The age of majority is 16 in Florida though Federal law (which sets it at 18) overrides this in the event of Federal age restrictions (such as voting).
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Old April 17th, 2016, 01:10 AM   #2
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Interesting concept, though unworkable in the digital age.
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Old April 17th, 2016, 03:37 AM   #3
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Interesting concept, though unworkable in the digital age.
How is it unworkable?
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Old April 17th, 2016, 06:57 AM   #4
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How is it unworkable?
Because THIS IS AMERICA, and it is an UNAMERICAN idea!!!
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Old April 17th, 2016, 07:37 AM   #5
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How is it unworkable?
As vast quantities of transactions take place through internet and other electronic means Florida would be required to contract or in some way create a way for these to transpire. Unless the Florida funds were easily transferable and universally accepted they would be useless for much of todays world.

As far as international transactions....unlikely if not impossible.
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Old April 17th, 2016, 07:42 AM   #6
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As vast quantities of transactions take place through internet and other electronic means Florida would be required to contract or in some way create a way for these to transpire. Unless the Florida funds were easily transferable and universally accepted they would be useless for much of todays world.

As far as international transactions....unlikely if not impossible.
As I said, this wouldn't be considered legal tender out of state and in the currency was issued 1:1 to USD assets there would be no issue with currency conversion.
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Old April 17th, 2016, 08:27 AM   #7
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As I said, this wouldn't be considered legal tender out of state and in the currency was issued 1:1 to USD assets there would be no issue with currency conversion.
And here we note the difficulty....How would you get the other states to accept these funds?
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Old April 17th, 2016, 11:15 AM   #8
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And here we note the difficulty....How would you get the other states to accept these funds?
You wouldn't. This idea would only have the currency be legal in the state that issues it. This is about giving state economies a financial boost and funding a UBI without having to rely on taxation (at least initially). There's also the Constitutional issue, the moment you try imposing this interstate, you violate Congress' monopoly on minting.
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Old April 17th, 2016, 11:27 AM   #9
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We then go back to my initial statement of uselessness. Imagine creating a fortune in Florida and being forced to move....start all over with nothing.
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Old April 17th, 2016, 11:49 AM   #10
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We then go back to my initial statement of uselessness. Imagine creating a fortune in Florida and being forced to move....start all over with nothing.
It's only right though. Why should a UBI for a state's residents aid someone not living in the state? Any unspent currency could always be exchanged, so long as units in circulation doesn't unreasonably outstrip the bank's assets in USDs relative inflation isn't a problem. If the bank holds sufficient tangible assets, the bank CAN issue more units that it's USD assets and potential still enjoy more buying power.
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Old April 17th, 2016, 01:25 PM   #11
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It's only right though. Why should a UBI for a state's residents aid someone not living in the state? Any unspent currency could always be exchanged, so long as units in circulation doesn't unreasonably outstrip the bank's assets in USDs relative inflation isn't a problem. If the bank holds sufficient tangible assets, the bank CAN issue more units that it's USD assets and potential still enjoy more buying power.
Primarily because that is the way our entire system works. Thus do we have a federal government to maintain roads and such. Will this new monetary system set aside the funds for that, police and emergency services, social security and such?
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Old April 17th, 2016, 04:34 PM   #12
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Primarily because that is the way our entire system works. Thus do we have a federal government to maintain roads and such. Will this new monetary system set aside the funds for that, police and emergency services, social security and such?
Why would it need to? Most everyone would still be using USDs and be taxed accordingly. Even if my hypothetical FP were to take off to become the primary currency, so what? If the value is +-5% the value of a USD it could be used to finance the state government while businesses working interstate could simply exchange it for USDs before doing out of state business. Remember we're not talking about printing a bunch of bills and expecting people to just accept them, it's a backed currency with real value. Only it's out of state legality is in question but if the bank offered free currency exchange (so long as it was being changed to USDs) that wouldn't be an issue.
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Old April 18th, 2016, 03:35 AM   #13
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Why would it need to? Most everyone would still be using USDs and be taxed accordingly. Even if my hypothetical FP were to take off to become the primary currency, so what? If the value is +-5% the value of a USD it could be used to finance the state government while businesses working interstate could simply exchange it for USDs before doing out of state business. Remember we're not talking about printing a bunch of bills and expecting people to just accept them, it's a backed currency with real value. Only it's out of state legality is in question but if the bank offered free currency exchange (so long as it was being changed to USDs) that wouldn't be an issue.
As stated initially...interesting concept.
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Old April 18th, 2016, 04:38 AM   #14
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"UBI" is merely a disguise for increased welfare by loser nanny State supporters - hello?!

"Income" means compensation for services performed - period.

Kindly be honest when you bring up buffoonish UBI.
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Old April 18th, 2016, 05:16 AM   #15
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why would this be initiated? what are we trying to fix here?

by the way, welcome back.
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Old April 18th, 2016, 05:24 AM   #16
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why would this be initiated? what are we trying to fix here?

by the way, welcome back.
Good point!

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Old April 18th, 2016, 05:59 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcturus88 View Post
why would this be initiated? what are we trying to fix here?

by the way, welcome back.
The primary motivation is to fund a UBI without (initially) relying on taxation as the money would simply be created. This would allow for a UBI to roll out with no tax burden and with a more limited burden going forward than would otherwise be possible. Being less reliant on the strength of the USD and keeping money from going out of state would also have domestic economic benefits.
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Old April 18th, 2016, 06:28 AM   #18
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The idea of a UBI is a STUPID idea!!!
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Old April 18th, 2016, 07:09 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
The primary motivation is to fund a UBI without (initially) relying on taxation as the money would simply be created. This would allow for a UBI to roll out with no tax burden and with a more limited burden going forward than would otherwise be possible. Being less reliant on the strength of the USD and keeping money from going out of state would also have domestic economic benefits.
Well what's broken with capitalism that a UBI would fix? wouldn't all the lazy people flock to Florida or lazy native Floridians living elsewhere just move back to Florida to take advantage of the free ride? and wouldn't such an influx just break the system? more lazy people than money go around?
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Old April 18th, 2016, 07:48 AM   #20
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Well what's broken with capitalism that a UBI would fix? wouldn't all the lazy people flock to Florida or lazy native Floridians living elsewhere just move back to Florida to take advantage of the free ride? and wouldn't such an influx just break the system? more lazy people than money go around?
Past UBI experiments say that doesn't happen and my plan addresses the points you've risen.

A UBI, if a reasonable amount, would also eliminate the need for a min wage as the UBI would mean a person would only need to work for supplemental income.

Last edited by David; April 18th, 2016 at 07:51 AM.
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