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Old March 5th, 2013, 10:54 AM   #1
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50,000 in NYC's homeless shelters

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An average of more than 50,000 people slept each night in New York City's homeless shelters for the first time in January, a record that underscores an unsettling national trend: a rising number of families without permanent housing.
Really? And how did NYC vote these last two elections?

Quote:
More than 21,000 children—an unprecedented 1% of the city's youth—slept each night in a city shelter in January, an increase of 22% in the past year, the report said, while homeless families now spend more than a year in a shelter, on average, for the first time since 1987. In January, an average of 11,984 homeless families slept in shelters each night, a rise of 18% from a year earlier.
Hope and change!

Quote:
New York is facing a homeless crisis worse than any time since the Great Depression," said Mary Brosnahan, president of the Coalition for the Homeless.
Mary.....who did you vote for? We sleep in the beds we make, Ms. Brosnahan....unless of course some of our rocket scientist contstituents elect a circus clown into office who couldn't run a fever during flu season. Then you have no bed to make or lie in.

New York City Leads Jump in Homeless - WSJ.com
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Old March 5th, 2013, 05:28 PM   #2
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Yes... let's cherry-pick one random datapoint out of a potential pool of virtually infinite and judge the American vote and the current Presidency on that one hand-selected datapoint. That will be statistically significant and unbiased.

/end sarcasm.

I am not the biggest fan of this President, but come on- this sort of stuff is politics at its stupidest and it means nothing. It hurts your own side. And both sides do it. That's why I don't like politics. It is silly- mostly everyone ends up making fools out of themselves.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 05:53 AM   #3
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The current economic reality of record food stamp recipients and homeless families hardly a random cherry picked datapoint. It happens to be real people...that we have to hear about from the Wall Street Journal.

More than 21,000 in shelters every night is a national catastrophe, myp. Your dismissal opinion that it's random and irrelevant is bothersome to me, I don't mind telling you. What do you care about?
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Old March 6th, 2013, 06:56 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
The current economic reality of record food stamp recipients and homeless families hardly a random cherry picked datapoint. It happens to be real people...that we have to hear about from the Wall Street Journal.

More than 21,000 in shelters every night is a national catastrophe, myp. Your dismissal opinion that it's random and irrelevant is bothersome to me, I don't mind telling you. What do you care about?
I assume the intent of your OP was less to highlight problems in NYC and more to assign the blame onto the "Clown" we have as President.

Quote:
Mary.....who did you vote for? We sleep in the beds we make, Ms. Brosnahan....unless of course some of our rocket scientist contstituents elect a circus clown into office who couldn't run a fever during flu season. Then you have no bed to make or lie in.
Though the economy likely plays a role in the issue, as it is happening nationwide...shrinking Government is also contributing:

""The economy is nowhere near where it was," said Seth Diamond, commissioner of the city's Department of Homeless Services. He pointed to the end of a state-funded program that subsidized rent for people leaving shelters, which ended in spring 2011; homeless families have gone up 35% since, according to shelter records."

Which is a result of Federal dollars being redirected as the Federal Government tightens it's belt.....Pretty much what I believe Republicans wanted Obama to do.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 07:53 AM   #5
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I assume the intent of your OP was less to highlight problems in NYC and more to assign the blame onto the "Clown" we have as President.
I highlight problems in NYC....because few others seem to care. 21,000+ each night....children in homeless shelters....is an embarrassment, tecoyah, would you agree? And I am pointing at this and wondering why our President who is quick to take credit for good economic news isn't held responsible, neither he or his policies ever seem to get mentioned. Why is that?

Quote:
Though the economy likely plays a role in the issue, as it is happening nationwide...shrinking Government is also contributing:

""The economy is nowhere near where it was," said Seth Diamond, commissioner of the city's Department of Homeless Services. He pointed to the end of a state-funded program that subsidized rent for people leaving shelters, which ended in spring 2011; homeless families have gone up 35% since, according to shelter records."

Which is a result of Federal dollars being redirected as the Federal Government tightens it's belt.....Pretty much what I believe Republicans wanted Obama to do.
So, it's Republicans at blame for these increased roll calls of children in shelters?
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Old March 6th, 2013, 08:29 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
I highlight problems in NYC....because few others seem to care. 21,000+ each night....children in homeless shelters....is an embarrassment, tecoyah, would you agree? And I am pointing at this and wondering why our President who is quick to take credit for good economic news isn't held responsible, neither he or his policies ever seem to get mentioned. Why is that?



So, it's Republicans at blame for these increased roll calls of children in shelters?
As usual the actual text of my statements is disregarded in favor of assigning what you perceive from them as my intent...this seems par for the course, and is the primary reason I so rarely bother.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 08:39 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
As usual the actual text of my statements is disregarded in favor of assigning what you perceive from them as my intent...this seems par for the course, and is the primary reason I so rarely bother.
Why not make it never rather than rarely. I couldn't care less what you think is "par for the course", you do more trolling than content posts, imo.

For the love of God.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 10:27 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
The current economic reality of record food stamp recipients and homeless families hardly a random cherry picked datapoint. It happens to be real people...that we have to hear about from the Wall Street Journal.

More than 21,000 in shelters every night is a national catastrophe, myp. Your dismissal opinion that it's random and irrelevant is bothersome to me, I don't mind telling you. What do you care about?
You don't understand statistical significance, do you? There are outliers in everything. Show that your data is statistically significant and then we'll talk. There were murders, homeless people, and crime during Bush, Reagan, and any leader at any given time in history's term too. (actually crime was worse in the 80s/Reagan years than it is now, especially in places like NYC- but in a vacuum that fact alone is nothing more than correlation, I realize that, I'm not sure you do)
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Old March 6th, 2013, 11:51 AM   #9
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You don't understand statistical significance, do you? There are outliers in everything. Show that your data is statistically significant and then we'll talk. There were murders, homeless people, and crime during Bush, Reagan, and any leader at any given time in history's term too. (actually crime was worse in the 80s/Reagan years than it is now, especially in places like NYC- but in a vacuum that fact alone is nothing more than correlation, I realize that, I'm not sure you do)
Show that my data is statistically significant? 21,000 not significant enough for you? And is this occurring in a vacuum? Are our other large cities Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, Miami, or LA not seeing the same sad statistics? Is this a national embarrassment...or not....is all I am asking?

It merely seem to me a President that came to office with commmunity as experience would have us organizing other places than homeless shelters.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 05:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
Show that my data is statistically significant? 21,000 not significant enough for you?
Not necessarily given the size of the American population...

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Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
And is this occurring in a vacuum? Are our other large cities Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, Miami, or LA not seeing the same sad statistics?
I don't know. What I do know is that you didn't share those statistics or consider them when you made your claim based on this story about NYC alone.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 06:08 AM   #11
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Not necessarily given the size of the American population...
21,000 was in NYC alone and I submit you may not even be reading my posts. Nice.

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I don't know. What I do know is that you didn't share those statistics or consider them when you made your claim based on this story about NYC alone.
NYC alone? Why then make a statement about the american population above?
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Old March 7th, 2013, 06:12 AM   #12
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Quote:
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21,000 was in NYC alone and I submit you may not even be reading my posts. Nice.



NYC alone? Why then make a statement about the american population above?
21k people in NYC is not a statistically significant sample size to gauge the entire nation by. For one, it is very poor sampling to concentrate your entire sample to one city if you are trying to make conclusions about the whole country. That's the point.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 06:17 AM   #13
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21k people in NYC is not a statistically significant sample size to gauge the entire nation by. For one, it is very poor sampling to concentrate your entire sample to one city if you are trying to make conclusions about the whole country. That's the point.
No? Multiply by 365 and that's how many children you're sheltering and feeding per year(in NYC alone) and I think the result of your multiplication is quite staggering. I also mentioned other inner cities here to ask if the exact same thing was going on in these cities....and the answer of course is yes. Detroit, Chicago, LA, Miami, Atlanta, I could go on and on. We've a record number on food stamps, record numbers showing up in shelters.......and a President who doesn't need be concerned for being blamed for it.

Many observers see no connection between these realities and Obama policies. That hasn't been the case with many Presidencies.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 06:24 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
No? Multiply by 365 and that's how many children you're sheltering and feeding per year(in NYC alone) and I think the result of your multiplication is quite staggering. I also mentioned other inner cities here to ask if the exact same thing was going on in these cities....and the answer of course is yes. Detroit, Chicago, LA, Miami, Atlanta, I could go on and on. We've a record number on food stamps, record numbers showing up in shelters.......and a President who doesn't need be concerned for being blamed for it.

Many observers see no connection between these realities and Obama policies. That hasn't been the case with many Presidencies.
You say things about all these cities and extrapolate one day into 365, but where's the data? The data you are using is not statistically significant for the conclusion you are trying to make. Very analogous to sob stories, anecdotes, etc. that people try to use to stir emotions while ignoring the aggregate data and reality.

Perhaps your point is a good one, I don't know, but you have to show the evidence that backs that up and that is where you are falling short here.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 06:29 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myp View Post
You say things about all these cities and extrapolate one day into 365, but where's the data? The data you are using is not statistically significant for the conclusion you are trying to make. Very analogous to sob stories, anecdotes, etc. that people try to use to stir emotions while ignoring the aggregate data and reality.

Perhaps your point is a good one, I don't know, but you have to show the evidence that backs that up and that is where you are falling short here.
I once again submit you are not reading my posts. More than 21,000 children—an unprecedented 1% of the city's youth—slept each night in a city shelter in January, an increase of 22% in the past year, the report said, while homeless families now spend more than a year in a shelter, on average, for the first time since 1987. In January, an average of 11,984 homeless families slept in shelters each night, a rise of 18% from a year earlier.

These are far from sob stories and no aggregate is ignored. This increase should concern people, it doesn't move you at all....noted.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 06:34 AM   #16
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Quote:
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I once again submit you are not reading my posts. More than 21,000 children—an unprecedented 1% of the city's youth—slept each night in a city shelter in January, an increase of 22% in the past year, the report said, while homeless families now spend more than a year in a shelter, on average, for the first time since 1987. In January, an average of 11,984 homeless families slept in shelters each night, a rise of 18% from a year earlier.

These are far from sob stories and no aggregate is ignored. This increase should concern people, it doesn't move you at all....noted.
All this says is the homeless shelter situation in NYC might have gotten worse. That does not mean the aggregate situation necessarily got worse (depending on how you define worse) and it does not mean the entire nation has gotten worse. For one, and as the article suggests, one of the reasons for this increase might be that less people are on the streets now. We need to look at the data closer to see what is actually going on here.

Yes, this might be bad and the President may or may not have something to do with it, and perhaps he does deserve criticism if his policies are affecting this, but to question the whole Presidency over this one issue? Eh... (talk about "sky is falling")

Last edited by myp; March 7th, 2013 at 06:39 AM.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 10:46 AM   #17
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I don't question the Presidency, I'm not calling for the man's impeachment. I'm putting the blame squarely in his corner, 50,000 a night equates to over 18 million a year. That's a national embarrassment, myp. Food stamps at record numbers while Wall Street sees record profits. Homeless shelters overrun, this is an absolutely stunning number to me.....and it appears that it's not for you. Noted.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 10:57 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
I don't question the Presidency, I'm not calling for the man's impeachment. I'm putting the blame squarely in his corner, 50,000 a night equates to over 18 million a year. That's a national embarrassment, myp. Food stamps at record numbers while Wall Street sees record profits. Homeless shelters overrun, this is an absolutely stunning number to me.....and it appears that it's not for you. Noted.
Stunning... perhaps, but we are also coming out of the worst recession since the Depression- certainly something to keep in mind. Also changes in benefit qualification obviously change those food stamp, etc. numbers too.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 11:29 AM   #19
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'Coming out of a recession' and yet....an increase of 22% in the past year?

But nothing to concern yourself about, myp, carry on. Random cherry picking is all.
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Old March 8th, 2013, 04:27 AM   #20
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'Coming out of a recession' and yet....an increase of 22% in the past year?

But nothing to concern yourself about, myp, carry on. Random cherry picking is all.
It is an important issue, but it is random cherry picking if you are using this datapoint as a basis for judging the strength of the national economy or the Presidency. You are blowing it out of proportion is all- again the "sky is falling" as you recently accused someone else of.
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