The Political Fray - Political Forum
Go Back   Political Fray > The Political Fray > Government and Politics

Government and Politics Government and Politics Forum including laws, elections, government structure, and political theory


Thanks Tree3Thanks
  • 2 Post By tecoyah
  • 1 Post By tecoyah
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old July 22nd, 2013, 03:44 PM   #1
Banned Camp
 
Joined: Jul 2013
From: washington
Posts: 203

The Civil War: Democracy in Action,or What?

Those who claim to love the constitution and claim that it must be read and understood word for word always seem to neglect the events which led to the bloodiest war in american history;the civil war.

if the constitution -and i think it has some great ideas- represented man's best hope for the future ,why did it fail so miserable in the past?

one would think that such a great document espousing such great idealism and being the great template for putting together a great and exceptional society ,would've found a way to avert such a slaughter involving one american killing another. so what gives?
falcondule is offline  
Old July 22nd, 2013, 06:08 PM   #2
Retired
 
tecoyah's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2012
From: Louisville, Ky
Posts: 3,775

Quote:
Originally Posted by falcondule View Post
Those who claim to love the constitution and claim that it must be read and understood word for word always seem to neglect the events which led to the bloodiest war in american history;the civil war.

if the constitution -and i think it has some great ideas- represented man's best hope for the future ,why did it fail so miserable in the past?

one would think that such a great document espousing such great idealism and being the great template for putting together a great and exceptional society ,would've found a way to avert such a slaughter involving one american killing another. so what gives?
All men created equal.....thus the civil war.
Thanks from Iolo and Elmer Gantry
tecoyah is offline  
Old July 23rd, 2013, 02:21 PM   #3
Banned Camp
 
Joined: Jul 2013
From: washington
Posts: 203

do you find equality in nature. Isn't man part of nature?

if equality can't be guaranteed in nature can government?
falcondule is offline  
Old July 23rd, 2013, 02:28 PM   #4
Retired
 
tecoyah's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2012
From: Louisville, Ky
Posts: 3,775

Quote:
Originally Posted by falcondule View Post
do you find equality in nature. Isn't man part of nature?

if equality can't be guaranteed in nature can government?
I see....so advancement of the species through intellect is not an evolution?

thank you for presenting an example of my point.
tecoyah is offline  
Old July 23rd, 2013, 02:39 PM   #5
Banned Camp
 
Joined: Jul 2013
From: washington
Posts: 203

O.K. but i really don't know what your point IS!!!
falcondule is offline  
Old July 23rd, 2013, 03:59 PM   #6
Retired
 
tecoyah's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2012
From: Louisville, Ky
Posts: 3,775

exactly
tecoyah is offline  
Old July 27th, 2013, 08:17 AM   #7
Senator
 
Iolo's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
From: Rhondda, Cymru
Posts: 746

It is difficult to see how two totally different economic systems can co-exist under the same government. The positions held by many of the Founding Father's were full of contradictions between the Enlightenment ideas they felt they ought to hold and the evil and archaic way they got their money and power. Just like the racism that is so widespread (and denied) in right-wing America now, the enslavement of human beings was deeply offensive to the rest of the world (two of my wife's Chartist forebears went over there to fight the slavers, and they weren't untypical). You can have any constitution you choose - progress arises out of the contradictions any system attempts hopelessly to embody.
Iolo is offline  
Old July 27th, 2013, 10:01 AM   #8
Representative
 
Road Warrior's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2012
From: North Texas
Posts: 311

Quote:
Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
I see....so advancement of the species through intellect is not an evolution?

thank you for presenting an example of my point.
It is evolution. OTOH, not all people are equally intelligent....nor attractive, skilled, wealthy, yada, yada, yada.

It's not our government's job to make them all equal in these traits, but it is our governments job to make sure we are all treated equally under the law regardless of intellect, wealth, celebrity, skills, etc.
Road Warrior is offline  
Old August 6th, 2013, 08:24 AM   #9
rgf
Analyst
 
Joined: Aug 2013
From: North Carolina
Posts: 91

I guess when a certain segment of a society believes it is their right, not to mention God's will, to own other human beings that is a road to certain conflict. The tragedy is that a small group of hot headed rich guys talked the south into a war that for all practicable purpose they had no chance of winning just to protect their way of life.
rgf is offline  
Old August 6th, 2013, 08:27 AM   #10
Senator
 
Iolo's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
From: Rhondda, Cymru
Posts: 746

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgf View Post
I guess when a certain segment of a society believes it is their right, not to mention God's will, to own other human beings that is a road to certain conflict. The tragedy is that a small group of hot headed rich guys talked the south into a war that for all practicable purpose they had no chance of winning just to protect their way of life.
The way of life of a tiny minority, of course. Aren't people mugs!
Iolo is offline  
Old August 6th, 2013, 01:11 PM   #11
Banned Camp
 
Joined: Jul 2013
From: washington
Posts: 203

Many historians believe ,myself included ,that the civil war was something of a gateway war for the usa. With the defeat of the south authoritarian rule on american soil ended. In few words ,historians believe that if the south had won or if the war itself had been averted the usa congress would've been more amenable to regimes such as the Kaiser's rule in germany and or the reich during the 30s.
and so would've been more inclined to reach accomodation with them...
falcondule is offline  
Old August 6th, 2013, 02:22 PM   #12
Retired
 
tecoyah's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2012
From: Louisville, Ky
Posts: 3,775

Had Hitler grown up in an Australian colony, historians believe (myself included), that Germany would have avoided the idea of aggressive expansion and there would have been no WWII.
Thanks from Elmer Gantry
tecoyah is offline  
Old August 6th, 2013, 02:32 PM   #13
Banned Camp
 
Joined: Jul 2013
From: washington
Posts: 203

irrelevant, hypothetical ,hearsay ;to be stricken from the record.
falcondule is offline  
Old August 6th, 2013, 04:23 PM   #14
Vice President
 
David's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
From: Opa Locka
Posts: 5,664

Quote:
Originally Posted by falcondule View Post
Many historians believe ,myself included ,that the civil war was something of a gateway war for the usa. With the defeat of the south authoritarian rule on american soil ended. In few words ,historians believe that if the south had won or if the war itself had been averted the usa congress would've been more amenable to regimes such as the Kaiser's rule in germany and or the reich during the 30s.
and so would've been more inclined to reach accomodation with them...
End of authoritarian rule? We suffered a decades long junta because of that war.
David is offline  
Reply

  Political Fray > The Political Fray > Government and Politics

Tags
action , civil , democracy , war



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Towards Democracy DGJ Philosophy 6 June 19th, 2012 11:52 PM
Iran threatens to take action if carrier moves to Gulf myp Current Events 5 January 4th, 2012 06:26 PM
Affirmative Action omej Government and Politics 10 March 24th, 2009 01:28 AM
Iran: a budding democracy in 1953: what destroyed that democracy? pingpong12 Government and Politics 24 March 22nd, 2009 11:37 PM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2009-2013 Political Fray. All rights reserved.