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Old June 2nd, 2015, 12:21 PM   #1
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red vs. blue civil war

increasingly we as a nation are moving further and further apart ideologically. there are those who have a strong belief in democracy and the constitution and those who simply see these constructs as a way to socially engineer society to the desires of the elite.

is civil war inevitable? will some states eventually align and form a new union?

do you see an increasing divide or is it just me?




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Old June 2nd, 2015, 12:40 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Aufgeblassen View Post
Nah, it is just SS/DD.
please elaborate.
you know, in order to make it more of a discussion.
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Old June 3rd, 2015, 07:34 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcturus88 View Post
increasingly we as a nation are moving further and further apart ideologically. there are those who have a strong belief in democracy and the constitution and those who simply see these constructs as a way to socially engineer society to the desires of the elite.

is civil war inevitable? will some states eventually align and form a new union?

do you see an increasing divide or is it just me?




http://images.mentalfloss.com/sites/...-565x389_6.png
They Cynics argument that there is an ideological divide is wrong. An argument to avoid admiring the last 200 years have been a lie.

The reality is that we've never (in the last 200 years or so) been a single people. We DON'T all speak English. We DON'T all eat the same food. We DON'T all follow the same religion. The South isn't all that changed from the way it was in 1860 aside from the tech. California and New England are their own things. Hawaii is still proud and independent minded (even deposed without even figurehead status, they refuse to renounce their monarchy) and many of the tribal nations retain their cultural independence and grow in political power each passing year.

The divide isn't ideological, it's simply nationalist sentiments from the many peoples Manifest Destiny trampled asserting itself. The Union is a lie born of sword and gun and the shock of the Civil War has passed.
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Old June 4th, 2015, 06:04 PM   #4
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They Cynics argument that there is an ideological divide is wrong. An argument to avoid admiring the last 200 years have been a lie.

The reality is that we've never (in the last 200 years or so) been a single people. We DON'T all speak English. We DON'T all eat the same food. We DON'T all follow the same religion. The South isn't all that changed from the way it was in 1860 aside from the tech. California and New England are their own things. Hawaii is still proud and independent minded (even deposed without even figurehead status, they refuse to renounce their monarchy) and many of the tribal nations retain their cultural independence and grow in political power each passing year.

The divide isn't ideological, it's simply nationalist sentiments from the many peoples Manifest Destiny trampled asserting itself. The Union is a lie born of sword and gun and the shock of the Civil War has passed.

I am sure there have been divides in the past. slave vs. slave owner, etc. however, now the divide is between two sides, both with power. consider, for example, even during the 60-70s, hippie generation, they did not have real power. there were no hippie presidential candidates or numerous states with hippie governors, etc.
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Old June 5th, 2015, 07:34 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by arcturus88 View Post
I am sure there have been divides in the past. slave vs. slave owner, etc. however, now the divide is between two sides, both with power. consider, for example, even during the 60-70s, hippie generation, they did not have real power. there were no hippie presidential candidates or numerous states with hippie governors, etc.
But that's my point. There AREN'T 2 sides. This ISN'T about party politics. This nation is an empire and nobody south of Georgia and west of the Appalachian joined willingly. What influence party politics has to play in the current divide is limited to discrediting the Federal Gov. The US is a super-national state and it's constituent parts are tiring of the relationship. Trying to simplify this down to party rivalry is a lazy cop out that allows people to see the country disintegrating without admitting that the Union itself was a lie.

The Union victory during the Civil War scared people in line for a while and 'settled the issue' but now that the shock has worn off, nationalist unrest is becoming a thing again. California is poised to shatter, places as politically diverse as Vermont and Texas have not insignificant have independence movements, Southern Nationalism is mainstream again (and not just for whites) and a socialist is making a serious bid for control of our floundering, socialist hating empire. Saying that Rs hate Ds and leaving it at that is just stupid.
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Old June 5th, 2015, 05:10 PM   #6
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But that's my point. There AREN'T 2 sides. This ISN'T about party politics. This nation is an empire and nobody south of Georgia and west of the Appalachian joined willingly. What influence party politics has to play in the current divide is limited to discrediting the Federal Gov. The US is a super-national state and it's constituent parts are tiring of the relationship. Trying to simplify this down to party rivalry is a lazy cop out that allows people to see the country disintegrating without admitting that the Union itself was a lie.

The Union victory during the Civil War scared people in line for a while and 'settled the issue' but now that the shock has worn off, nationalist unrest is becoming a thing again. California is poised to shatter, places as politically diverse as Vermont and Texas have not insignificant have independence movements, Southern Nationalism is mainstream again (and not just for whites) and a socialist is making a serious bid for control of our floundering, socialist hating empire. Saying that Rs hate Ds and leaving it at that is just stupid.
sure there is more than two sides. there is all manner of people wanting a piece of the pie. its just that most, outside of those two sides, don't really matter. their numbers are smaller than the two polarities. small dissenters will find likeness with other smaller dissenters and generally fall on one side or the other of the divide. its not personal, its just that when there is a divide between R and Ds, the Apollo worshiping socialists of this world will simply have to pick a side.

in regards to the civil war of the past, it ultimately was the blue and gray, not the blue, gray, purple, green and pick and orange. its not that those other colors didn't exist, its just that when history fleshes it out, civil war boiled down to two sides that mattered.
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Old June 6th, 2015, 09:51 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by arcturus88 View Post
sure there is more than two sides. there is all manner of people wanting a piece of the pie. its just that most, outside of those two sides, don't really matter. their numbers are smaller than the two polarities. small dissenters will find likeness with other smaller dissenters and generally fall on one side or the other of the divide. its not personal, its just that when there is a divide between R and Ds, the Apollo worshiping socialists of this world will simply have to pick a side.

in regards to the civil war of the past, it ultimately was the blue and gray, not the blue, gray, purple, green and pick and orange. its not that those other colors didn't exist, its just that when history fleshes it out, civil war boiled down to two sides that mattered.
Except that the Civil War was a 3 sided war (history likes to ignore brown people) so even that point fails. Even restricting your view to Rs and Ds, things don't work out. A northern R is a southern D. A southern D is a northern Green or Libertarian and the West is it's own thing where the traditional ideas of both parties are largely irrelevant and party labels are more about funding than ideology. There will never be a divide in this country (elections aside) between Rs and Ds because thy're not monolithic things and there is, on the national level, MASSIVE overlap in the 2 parties.

I stand by my original point. While this country is massively divided and the idea of civil war MAYBE happening is no longer considered crackpot thinking, it's more deep rooted than party divides and blaming the Rs and Ds is just a lazy cop out. A war for water and/or independence is far more likely, by several magnitudes, than a war over ideology or even race.
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Old June 29th, 2018, 05:26 AM   #8
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bump in reference to David's thread.
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Old June 29th, 2018, 07:06 AM   #9
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please elaborate.
you know, in order to make it more of a discussion.
Same shit, different day!!!
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Old June 29th, 2018, 07:07 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcturus88 View Post
increasingly we as a nation are moving further and further apart ideologically. there are those who have a strong belief in democracy and the constitution and those who simply see these constructs as a way to socially engineer society to the desires of the elite.

is civil war inevitable? will some states eventually align and form a new union?

do you see an increasing divide or is it just me?




http://images.mentalfloss.com/sites/...-565x389_6.png
Ummm..... Ohio and FL BOTH went for Trump!!! - hello?!
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Old June 29th, 2018, 11:14 AM   #11
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TRUE map:

(also includes Indiana, North Carlolina and Pennsylvania!)

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Old June 29th, 2018, 11:24 AM   #12
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Due to recent developments, I'm calling a civil war within 1.5 years.
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Old June 29th, 2018, 11:25 AM   #13
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Due to recent developments, I'm calling a civil war within 1.5 years.

You are quite the comedian. But don't quit your day job!

Developments? Such as?
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