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Old June 17th, 2017, 03:47 PM   #41
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And yet you keep adding to it, Auffie ---
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Old June 17th, 2017, 05:01 PM   #42
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The whole subject of electoral methods is very deep and complex.

How curious that, in our supposed democracy, people are not better educated in these matters!

Proportional representation and a more parliamentary government would be useful steps forward, but in themselves are not enough to provide a truly workable form of representative government.

The broadest approach to these questions lies in Social Choice Theory:

The Possibility of Social Choice

The above link is to the Nobel Prize Acceptance Speech of Amartya K. Sen, who won the Prize in economics. It avoids the complex mathematics which are usual in social choice theory.

Among other matters, it is necessary to have some understanding of Arrow's Impossibility Theorem:

Arrow’s impossibility theorem

which makes clear that there are certain very deep dilemmas inherent in all electoral procedures, dilemmas which vitiate the fairness of almost all voting systems, and which most political commentators are quite clueless about.

There are ways to escape Arrow's Paradox: I think the best is so-called Fractional Voting:

Arrow's Paradox and the Fractional Voting System

Here are two youtube videos on the subject:

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=D947XdjnAVs

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=N1lWVyfiEbo
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Old June 18th, 2017, 02:05 PM   #43
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Old June 18th, 2017, 02:06 PM   #44
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As soon as the oligarchs can do without their human cattle, they will figure out a way to get rid of them. Just look at what they are already doing all over the world.

Thinking that the USA is salvageable requires a deliberate blindness to history. Ever since World War II, the USA has consistently become ever more militarized, ever more unequal, ever more in the grip of the oligarchs and their dependent Deep State. Only external events (i.e. environmental catastrophe) can influence the onward force of historical momentum.
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Old June 18th, 2017, 04:16 PM   #45
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Auffie, you wouldn't recognize an oligarch if it bit you on the throat.
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Old June 18th, 2017, 04:57 PM   #46
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The problem with America is not it's diversity, but its narrow-minded lack of culture and the deliberate intent of its ruling classes to sow discord, anomie, suspicion and the end of all social bonds except for a limited class of economic relationships.

They will never be satisfied until the USA is a nation of single-parent families, ignorant, terrified of social workers and the police, deeply in debt, working at two or more jobs, hooked on prozak and other mind-altering drugs, always suffering from some low-level disease that requires expensive drugs from Big Pharma, brainwashed by info-tainment, and terrified of their neighbors. (Not to mention a slave-labor force drawn from the more than 1% of the population held in prison at any one time!)

People can be ruled so much more easily if they are atomized, isolated, confused, fearful, ignorant, and trapped --- and America's rulers have led the world in developing the sort of society that is beneficial to the rich and powerful in just this way!
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Old June 20th, 2017, 06:05 PM   #47
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Fascism was all the rage among right-wing scoundrels of the 20's and 30's, just as today neo-fascism is the darling of the right-wing oligarchs who infest the USA. Look at this:



Note the date on the coin. Did Mussolini import his ideas from the USA?


Here is one of the two flanking the dais of the Speaker of the House of Representatives:




One wonders where they keep their swastikas; perhaps in their private chambers?
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Old June 21st, 2017, 07:34 AM   #48
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Thats a Tribune's (basically what the Speaker and Majority Leader are) symbol of power. How is republican symbolism fascist?
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Old June 24th, 2017, 03:00 PM   #49
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Thats a Tribune's (basically what the Speaker and Majority Leader are) symbol of power. How is republican symbolism fascist?
If you go back to the late 1940's you will find completely different (floral) decorations where now there are fasces.

Putting up, so soon after the US had been fighting them, the second-most widespread symbol of America's enemies in the heart of the US government, is odd in the extreme.

But if you consider that America's ruling class were supporters of fascism (in their own country), then it makes sense.
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Old June 24th, 2017, 03:47 PM   #50
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If you go back to the late 1940's you will find completely different (floral) decorations where now there are fasces.

Putting up, so soon after the US had been fighting them, the second-most widespread symbol of America's enemies in the heart of the US government, is odd in the extreme.

But if you consider that America's ruling class were supporters of fascism (in their own country), then it makes sense.
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The US has ALWAYS emulated the Romans.
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Old September 16th, 2017, 05:35 PM   #51
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Our Constitution Wasn’t Built for This

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Exactly 230 years ago, on Sept. 17, 1787, a group of men in Philadelphia concluded a summer of sophisticated, impassioned debates about the fate of their fledgling nation. The document that emerged, our Constitution, is often thought of as part of an aristocratic counterrevolution that stands in contrast to the democratic revolution of 1776. But our Constitution has at least one radical feature: It isn’t designed for a society with economic inequality.

There are other things the Constitution wasn’t written for, of course. The founders didn’t foresee America becoming a global superpower. They didn’t plan for the internet or nuclear weapons. And they certainly couldn’t have imagined a former reality television star president....

But there is a different, and far more stubborn, risk that our country faces — and which, arguably, led to the TV star turned president in the first place. Our Constitution was not built for a country with so much wealth concentrated at the very top nor for the threats that invariably accompany it: oligarchs and populist demagogues....

As Theodore Roosevelt wrote, “There can be no real political democracy unless there is something approaching an economic democracy.”

For all its resilience and longevity, our Constitution doesn’t have structural checks built into it to prevent oligarchy or populist demagogues. It was written on the assumption that America would remain relatively equal economically. Even the father of the Constitution understood this. Toward the end of his life, Madison worried that the number of Americans who had only the “bare necessities of life” would one day increase. When it did, he concluded, the institutions and laws of the country would need to be adapted, and that task would require “all the wisdom of the wisest patriots.”
At last, intelligent people are daring to conclude that the antiquated, horse-and-buggy American Constitution must be abolished or radically reformed.
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Old September 17th, 2017, 12:42 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by numan View Post
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Our Constitution Wasn’t Built for This



At last, intelligent people are daring to conclude that the antiquated, horse-and-buggy American Constitution must be abolished or radically reformed.
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What was it that created this deep seated hatred of the United States in you?

Inquiring minds want to know.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 09:53 AM   #53
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Should the United States Cease to Exist?
if it did not...

do you think all your guilty feelings would go away?

avoidance is rarely the answer, psychologically speaking.

perhaps just make an apology to those you feel you have wronged.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 05:10 PM   #54
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What was it that created this deep seated hatred of the United States in you?

Inquiring minds want to know.
Interesting that proposing a new constitution for the USA (something which nations less sunk in barbarism and denial do all the time) is considered hatred of a whole country.

My attitude is one of disgust rather than hatred.

Objectively, the behavior of the US government and power elite is quite normal and to be expected --- all through history, barbaric and mindless societies have behaved exactly the same way.

Ever since the end of the Second World War. the USA has been rampaging, with ever increasing violence, all over the world --- equaling or surpassing the worst savageries of the Nazis.

Why do such crimes not elicit similar disgust in you?

Inquiring minds wish to know.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 05:26 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by numan View Post
Interesting that proposing a new constitution for the USA (something which nations less sunk in barbarism and denial do all the time) is considered hatred of a whole country.

My attitude is one of disgust rather than hatred.

Objectively, the behavior of the US government and power elite is quite normal and to be expected --- all through history, barbaric and mindless societies have behaved exactly the same way.

Ever since the end of the Second World War. the USA has been rampaging, with ever increasing violence, all over the world --- equaling or surpassing the worst savageries of the Nazis.

Why do such crimes not elicit similar disgust in you?

Inquiring minds wish to know.
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Primarily because I understand the unpleasant realities that go along with being powerful in a world of very bad things done by very bad people. This forces me to consider the impossibility of Nirvana and accept good rather than expect perfect.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 05:29 PM   #56
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The US has ALWAYS emulated the Romans.
A slight disagreement. That's like saying "The US has ALWAYS emulated the Brits." It's more truthful to say that both the Romans and the Brits are a very important part of American culture and history. Rome, because it conquered and influenced nearly all of Europe and Britain for a more direct lineage in our history.

Mussolini wanted to restore Italy to the power and respect of the Roman empire, so he used much of it in his fascist government including the Roman fasces.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/fasces
Fasces, insignia of official authority in ancient Rome. The name derives from the plural form of the Latin fascis (“bundle”).
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Old September 18th, 2017, 05:35 PM   #57
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Fasces, insignia of official authority in ancient Rome. The name derives from the plural form of the Latin fascis (“bundle”).

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Old September 18th, 2017, 05:37 PM   #58
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Primarily because I understand the unpleasant realities that go along with being powerful in a world of very bad things done by very bad people. This forces me to consider the impossibility of Nirvana and accept good rather than expect perfect.
It seems to me that you are accepting evil rather than searching for truth and improvement.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 06:11 PM   #59
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It seems to me that you are accepting evil rather than searching for truth and improvement.
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I am well aware of truth and do not deny the "evil"...because I live in this little thing I like to call......REALITY.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 06:53 PM   #60
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People who think that they know what "reality" is should study the famous lines by William Blake:

I assert, for myself, that I do not behold the outward creation, and that to me it is hindrance and not action. "What !" it will be questioned, "when the sun rises, do you not see a round disc of fire somewhat like a guinea !" Oh ! no, no ! I see an innumerable company of the heavenly host crying "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty !" I question not my corporeal eye any more than I would question a window concerning a sight. I look through it, and not with it.

All around me I see an innumerable company of the Infernal Host who, when confronted by a window opening out upon a mighty landscape, are able to see nothing beyond the fly specks on the window pane.
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