The Political Fray - Political Forum
Go Back   Political Fray > The Political Fray > Government and Politics

Government and Politics Government and Politics Forum including laws, elections, government structure, and political theory


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old May 3rd, 2017, 04:44 PM   #1
Senator
 
numan's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2016
From: Victoria, BC
Posts: 772

Peace, order and good government

PEACE, ORDER AND GOOD GOVERNMENT

Quote:
In many Commonwealth jurisdictions, the phrase "peace, order and good government" is an expression used in law to express the legitimate objects of legislative powers conferred by statute. The phrase appears in many Imperial Acts of Parliament and Letters Patent, most notably the constitutions of Canada, the Commonwealth of Australia and, formerly, New Zealand and South Africa. Contrast with "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"...a phrase found in the United States Declaration of Independence.
Hmmph....It seems to me that the childish self-absorption and anarchy which has devolved from American "life, liberty and (a supposed) pursuit of happiness" is harmful to both life and the pursuit of happiness --- and even, ultimately, to liberty.

I think this will distinguish Canadians from Americans far into the foreseeable future. Canadians, especially educated Canadians, usually are rather disgusted by what they see of American behaviour -- especially social behaviour.

In Canada, PEACE, ORDER, GOOD GOVERNMENT, as an ideal, trumps the incoherent blither of the Declaration of Independence.
.
numan is offline  
Old May 3rd, 2017, 05:09 PM   #2
Vice President
 
Aufgeblassen's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2013
From: Central FL
Posts: 9,781

Quoting little green men?

Aufgeblassen is online now  
Old May 4th, 2017, 01:25 PM   #3
Senator
 
numan's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2016
From: Victoria, BC
Posts: 772

'
And this is from Bloomberg!!, not from a Canadian jingoist !! (If such a creature can be found)

Hardheaded Socialism Makes Canada Richer Than U.S.

Quote:
On July 1, Canada Day, Canadians awoke to a startling, if pleasant, piece of news: For the first time in recent history, the average Canadian is richer than the average American.

...the net worth of the average Canadian household in 2011 was $363,202, while the average American household’s net worth was $319,970.

Canada continues to thrive, while the U.S. struggles to find its way out of an intractable economic crisis and a political sine curve of hope and despair.
The difference grows starker by the month: The Canadian system is working; the American system is not....

...national constitutions based on the American model are quickly disappearing. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, in an interview on Egyptian television, admitted, “I would not look to the United States Constitution if I were drafting a constitution in the year 2012.”
emphases added
.
numan is offline  
Old May 4th, 2017, 01:28 PM   #4
Senator
 
numan's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2016
From: Victoria, BC
Posts: 772

'
The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms: which the Bloomberg article says is "achieving the status of legal superstar as it reaches its 30th birthday" -- compared to the archaic and deficient Bill of Rights. · ·

As time goes on, I think Americans will more and more be in need of these sections:

Quote:
10. Everyone has the right on arrest or detention
(a) to be informed promptly of the reasons therefor;
(b) to retain and instruct counsel without delay and to be informed of that right; and
(c) to have the validity of the detention determined by way of habeas corpus and to be released if the detention is not lawful.
11. Any person charged with an offence has the right
(a) to be informed without unreasonable delay of the specific offence;
(b) to be tried within a reasonable time;
(c) not to be compelled to be a witness in proceedings against that person in respect of the offence;
(d) to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law in a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal;
(e) not to be denied reasonable bail without just cause;
(f) except in the case of an offence under military law tried before a military tribunal, to the benefit of trial by jury where the maximum punishment for the offence is imprisonment for five years or a more severe punishment;
(g) not to be found guilty on account of any act or omission unless, at the time of the act or omission, it constituted an offence under Canadian or international law or was criminal according to the general principles of law recognized by the community of nations;
.
numan is offline  
Old May 6th, 2017, 02:11 PM   #5
Senator
 
numan's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2016
From: Victoria, BC
Posts: 772

'
The Bill of Rights? That antiquated list drawn up by a Cabal of insurrectionary terrorists who brought war, death and turmoil to their country? They certainly look like a minority Collective which unconstitutionally seized control of government. And considering the voting restrictions of the time, they certainly did not represent the whole people !

---not to mention having, with brutal violence, driven out of the country those people who disagreed with them !

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms was, on the other hand, after considerable discussion by the whole country, drawn up by a Parliament which was peacefully elected by the whole people of the country, reviewed and ratified by the British Parliament, and which is in line with similar charters drawn up by the more civilized countries of the world.

Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms

Quote:
The British Parliament formally enacted the Charter as a part of the Canada Act 1982 at the request of the Parliament of Canada in 1982....
...the Charter has attracted...broad support from a majority of the Canadian electorate....

Most of the rights can be exercised by any legal person, (the Charter does not define the corporation as a "legal person")....
emphases added
.
numan is offline  
Old May 10th, 2017, 04:53 AM   #6
Governor
 
arcturus88's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2012
From: NC
Posts: 2,023

Quote:
Originally Posted by numan View Post
PEACE, ORDER AND GOOD GOVERNMENT


Hmmph....It seems to me that the childish self-absorption and anarchy which has devolved from American "life, liberty and (a supposed) pursuit of happiness" is harmful to both life and the pursuit of happiness --- and even, ultimately, to liberty.

In Canada, PEACE, ORDER, GOOD GOVERNMENT, as an ideal, trumps the incoherent blither of the Declaration of Independence.
.

Really? I find "peace, order and good government" very silly. its like the grown up version of "sex, drugs, and rock and roll". completely meaningless.


lets break it apart, ok?

peace and order but no freedom could be true of totalitarian regimes (say North Korea). For example, I'm sure Kim Jong Un considers his regime to be peaceful (or you die), orderly (have you seen their marching?) and a good government.

So you see, his regime would not violate your Canadian motto in the least. Isn't that funny? However, Kim's government would violate the American motto of "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" on all three counts.

Kim's assassinations and starving people violate ~ life
Kim's dictatorial rule and persecution of alternative thought violate ~ liberty
and without question, if you don't have those you could hardly pursue happiness.

So in short, the Canadian way is lacking. I would suggest they adopt our way. We won't mind. As Canadian's bigger, healthier brother we are good to let our weaker sibling copy us from time to time. We're good like that.

Last edited by arcturus88; May 10th, 2017 at 04:57 AM.
arcturus88 is offline  
Old May 10th, 2017, 05:14 AM   #7
Vice President
 
Aufgeblassen's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2013
From: Central FL
Posts: 9,781

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcturus88 View Post
Really? I find "peace, order and good government" very silly. its like the grown up version of "sex, drugs, and rock and roll". completely meaningless.


lets break it apart, ok?

peace and order but no freedom could be true of totalitarian regimes (say North Korea). For example, I'm sure Kim Jong Un considers his regime to be peaceful (or you die), orderly (have you seen their marching?) and a good government.

So you see, his regime would not violate your Canadian motto in the least. Isn't that funny? However, Kim's government would violate the American motto of "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" on all three counts.

Kim's assassinations and starving people violate ~ life
Kim's dictatorial rule and persecution of alternative thought violate ~ liberty
and without question, if you don't have those you could hardly pursue happiness.

So in short, the Canadian way is lacking. I would suggest they adopt our way. We won't mind. As Canadian's bigger, healthier brother we are good to let our weaker sibling copy us from time to time. We're good like that.
VERY good points! - ALL OF THEM!.

The buffoonish so-called health care system in Canada is NO care at all! It is an 18+ week waiting list, you where you hope/pray you don't die or suffer irreparable damage before you actually get treatment!
Aufgeblassen is online now  
Old May 11th, 2017, 01:03 PM   #8
Senator
 
numan's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2016
From: Victoria, BC
Posts: 772

'
Comparisons with other human rights documents :

European Convention on Human Rights

Quote:
The Canadian Charter bears a number of similarities to the European Convention, specifically in relation to the limitations clauses contained in the European document....

Because of this similarity with European human rights law, the Supreme Court of Canada turns not only to the Constitution of the United States case law in interpreting the Charter, but also to European Court of Human Rights cases....

Fundamental justice (in section 7 of the Canadian Charter) is therefore interpreted to include more legal protections than due process, which is its US equivalent. Freedom of expression in section 2 also has a more wide-ranging scope than the First Amendment to the United States Constitution's freedom of speech....

The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights has several parallels with the Canadian Charter....

The Charter itself influenced the Bill of Rights in the Constitution of South Africa....
.
numan is offline  
Old May 11th, 2017, 01:06 PM   #9
Vice President
 
Aufgeblassen's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2013
From: Central FL
Posts: 9,781

Aufgeblassen is online now  
Old May 12th, 2017, 03:29 PM   #10
Senator
 
numan's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2016
From: Victoria, BC
Posts: 772

'
A jury consists of twelve persons responsible for deciding who has
the better lawyer.

---Robert Frost

And an appellate court is responsible for twisting the law in favor of
the more influential party.

---yours truly

Intelligent, neutral observers of the American scene have known for a very long time that the most dangerous aspect of the American system of misgovernment is the judicial system. That is because the judiciary is usually recruited from the most reactionary elements of society, and because the power of judges is virtually unlimited; there are almost no checks on them, as there are in civilized countries. How could they not be corrupt, and abusers of power? You might as well expect them to have superhuman virtue in the face of so much temptation!

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

When the outstanding mathematician, Kurt Gödel ["the greatest logician since Aristotle"], became a US citizen in the 1940's, he took it very seriously, and, as a logician, analysed the US Constitution very thoroughly. He immediately recognized the danger which the judiciary posed, and was appalled.

Gödel and the Constitution

Quote:
On 5 December 1947, Albert Einstein set himself the task of psyching out the world's greatest mathematician. His partner and wheel-man in this venture was Oskar Morgenstern, the co-inventor of game theory.

Their motive was not frivolous. The target was Kurt Godel, whose citizenship hearing was scheduled in Trenton, New Jersey for that day. In studying for the questions he would be asked at the hearing, Gödel decided that he had discovered a contradiction in the U.S. Constitution. Gödel believed this contradiction would allow the U.S. to be turned, quite legally, into a dictatorship. Gödel was sure that this discovery needed to be shared....

But things unraveled with Judge Philip Forman's very first question. "What kind of government did you have in Austria?", he asked.

Gödel told Forman that it had been a republic but had been turned into a dictatorship. Einstein and Morgenstern squirmed.

"Oh! This is very bad," said Judge Forman. "This could not happen in this country."

"Oh, yes," Gödel answered, "I can prove it."

That they had come before Judge Forman was a stroke of luck. Forman was a friend of Einstein's. After a brief discussion, Forman told Gödel that he need not go into more detail on the dictatorship issue and force-marched the hearing to a successful end.
here is a copy of Morgenstern's original description [scroll down past the handwriting]:

History of the Naturalization of Kurt Gödel
.
numan is offline  
Reply

  Political Fray > The Political Fray > Government and Politics

Tags
good , government , order , peace



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Come Join This Religion Of Peace, My Son! Aufgeblassen Religion 3 December 5th, 2015 05:47 AM
Does good government represent? falcondule Government and Politics 3 July 20th, 2013 02:45 PM
Syrian Peace Idea SlipperyJack Government and Politics 18 August 11th, 2012 02:29 PM
Cyprus Peace Operation, 1974 reader History 8 August 1st, 2012 06:55 PM
Government mandates that exempt government myp Government and Politics 1 April 6th, 2010 02:09 AM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2009-2013 Political Fray. All rights reserved.