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Old September 26th, 2017, 03:23 PM   #1
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The Science of Genocide



The Science of Genocide

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On this day in 1945 the United States demonstrated that it was as morally bankrupt as the Nazi machine it had recently vanquished and the Soviet regime with which it was allied. Over Hiroshima, and three days later over Nagasaki, it exploded an atomic device that was the most efficient weapon of genocide in human history. The blast killed tens of thousands of men, women and children. It was an act of mass annihilation that was strategically and militarily indefensible. The Japanese had been on the verge of surrender. Hiroshima and Nagasaki had no military significance. It was a war crime for which no one was ever tried....
"What are we to make of a civilization which has always regarded ethics as an essential part of human life [but] which has not been able to talk about the prospect of killing almost everyone except in prudential and game-theoretical terms?" Oppenheimer asked after World War II.
A little late to think about that, Oppie -- you great, big, genius boobie.
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A rational world, a world that will protect the ecosystem and build economies that learn to distribute wealth rather than allow a rapacious elite to hoard it, will never be handed to us by the scientists and technicians. Nearly all of them work for the enemy.
All attempts to control the universe, to play God, to become the arbiters of life and death, have been carried out by moral idiots. They will relentlessly push forward, exploiting and pillaging, perfecting their terrible tools of technology and science, until their creation destroys them and us.
emphases added
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Old September 26th, 2017, 03:51 PM   #2
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The atom bombs were NOT necessary to ensure a Japanese surrender, and American "leaders" knew that very well !!!

Debate over the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki
The bombings as war crimes

Quote:
Szilard, who had gone on to play a major role in the Manhattan Project, argued:
"Let me say only this much to the moral issue involved: Suppose Germany had developed two bombs before we had any bombs. And suppose Germany had dropped one bomb, say, on Rochester and the other on Buffalo, and then having run out of bombs she would have lost the war. Can anyone doubt that we would then have defined the dropping of atomic bombs on cities as a war crime, and that we would have sentenced the Germans who were guilty of this crime to death at Nuremberg and hanged them?"
The 1946 United States Strategic Bombing Survey, written by Paul Nitze, concluded that the atomic bombs had been unnecessary to the winning of the war....Nitze reported : "Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts, and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey's opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945, and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated."
"The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace. The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military point of view, in the defeat of Japan."
----Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet
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Old September 26th, 2017, 05:01 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numan View Post
The atom bombs were NOT necessary to ensure a Japanese surrender, and American "leaders" knew that very well !!!
....snip....
It is well understood that Japan would not have given up and it's population would have been decimated if an invasion had been instigated. That is not to mention the hundreds of thousands of Americans that would die in addition to the many who already had. The Japanese mentality and the orders from their God/Emperor would have been extremely destructive to both sides. The brutality of the Japanese had also created a level of hatred that pretty much said to America "Do whatever it takes".
The use of those bombs likely prevented many deaths and months of war.
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Old September 26th, 2017, 09:36 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
It is well understood that Japan would not have given up and it's population would have been decimated if an invasion had been instigated. That is not to mention the hundreds of thousands of Americans that would die in addition to the many who already had. The Japanese mentality and the orders from their God/Emperor would have been extremely destructive to both sides. The brutality of the Japanese had also created a level of hatred that pretty much said to America "Do whatever it takes".
The use of those bombs likely prevented many deaths and months of war.
It also ended the war before the Soviets would invade. Had the war lasted even another month the Soviets would have had a presence on the Home Islands and thus a place at the peace table. Rather than the pacified Japanese Empire that exists today, we'd have another Soviet north vs. American south country.
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Old September 28th, 2017, 03:10 PM   #5
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It also ended the war before the Soviets would invade. Had the war lasted even another month the Soviets would have had a presence on the Home Islands and thus a place at the peace table. Rather than the pacified Japanese Empire that exists today, we'd have another Soviet north vs. American south country.
This is the only posting (other than mine) that has any connection with reality.

American mass murder of civilians in Japan left only three cities unshattered ---
within range of bombers: Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Kyoto.

The uranium bomb was used on Hiroshima, and the plutonium bomb was used on Nagasaki.

The US War Machine "needed" two pristine cities in order to "test" the destructive power of their bombs. The innocent civilians were, as usual, "collateral damage".
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Old September 28th, 2017, 03:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numan View Post
This is the only posting (other than mine) that has any connection with reality.

American mass murder of civilians in Japan left only three cities unshattered ---
within range of bombers: Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Kyoto.

The uranium bomb was used on Hiroshima, and the plutonium bomb was used on Nagasaki.

The US War Machine "needed" two pristine cities in order to "test" the destructive power of their bombs. The innocent civilians were, as usual, "collateral damage".
.
Firebombing killed more Japanese than Hiroshima and firebombing would have been the alternative.
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Old September 28th, 2017, 03:40 PM   #7
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'
Was the Atomic Bombing of Japan Necessary?

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The question of military necessity can be quickly put to rest. "Japan was already defeated and dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary." Those are not the words of a latter-day revisionist historian....They are the words of Dwight D. Eisenhower, Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces in Europe and future president of the United States.

Eisenhower knew, as did the entire senior U.S. officer corps, that by mid 1945 Japan was defenseless....

As a result of the naked futility of their position, the Japanese had approached the Russians, seeking their help in brokering a peace to end the War. The U.S. had long before broken the Japanese codes and knew that these negotiations were under way, knew that the Japanese had for months been trying to find a way to surrender....

...the virtually unanimous and combined judgment of the most informed, senior, officers of the U.S. military is unequivocal: there was no pressing military necessity for dropping the atomic bombs on Japan.
emphases added
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Old September 30th, 2017, 04:42 PM   #8
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'
Always interesting when brainwashed Americans blithely ignore the judgments of their respected military leaders when they contradict their unexamined prejudices.

It is usually claimed that the bombs were not ready in time to bomb Germany...but I wonder....

The Americans cold-bloodedly reserved a few cities in Japan unbombed throughout the war -- so that they could accurately measure the damage done to a city, like a heartless laboratory experiment.

I don't know of any important cities in Germany that were not laid waste by conventional bombing -- so it seems that the American rulers never planned to use the Bomb on Germany.

I once asked a German friend, who lived through the bombing and fall of Berlin, how the Germans would have reacted to Germany being atom-bombed. She replied most decidedly : "Oh, Mann!! We are not Japanese Buddhists!! Germans would not have forgotten or forgiven!!"

Perhaps that is the real reason!! · ·
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Old September 30th, 2017, 08:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numan View Post
'
Always interesting when brainwashed Americans blithely ignore the judgments of their respected military leaders when they contradict their unexamined prejudices.

It is usually claimed that the bombs were not ready in time to bomb Germany...but I wonder....

The Americans cold-bloodedly reserved a few cities in Japan unbombed throughout the war -- so that they could accurately measure the damage done to a city, like a heartless laboratory experiment.

I don't know of any important cities in Germany that were not laid waste by conventional bombing -- so it seems that the American rulers never planned to use the Bomb on Germany.

I once asked a German friend, who lived through the bombing and fall of Berlin, how the Germans would have reacted to Germany being atom-bombed. She replied most decidedly : "Oh, Mann!! We are not Japanese Buddhists!! Germans would not have forgotten or forgiven!!"

Perhaps that is the real reason!! · ·
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While I agree we left cities intact to test our nukes, the European Theater was a different war. Japan is a bunch of islands, once we had air superiority the war was good as won. German armies on the other hand were free, in the event of a breakthrough (as seen at the Battle of the Bulge), to resume the offencive even if the Allies ruled the skies. Keeping Japanese cities intact didn't really change anything. In Germany having fully operational industrial centers meant they could carry on the fight and potentially turn the tide.
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Old October 1st, 2017, 05:19 PM   #10
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'
And, with astonishing serendipity, last night I was watching the 1945 film version of Agatha Cristie's "Ten Little Indians" -- in the Special Features was included a 1945 year-end news review of Castle films "News Parade."

It included a clip of the mushroom cloud rising up from Nagasaki, while the news reader intoned, quote ---

"The Japs were trying to surrender when the atom bomb leveled Nagasaki."

Clearly, the American government and Brainwashing Machine had not got their lies straight by the end of 1945 !!!
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Old October 1st, 2017, 10:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numan View Post
'
And, with astonishing serendipity, last night I was watching the 1945 film version of Agatha Cristie's "Ten Little Indians" -- in the Special Features was included a 1945 year-end news review of Castle films "News Parade."

It included a clip of the mushroom cloud rising up from Nagasaki, while the news reader intoned, quote ---

"The Japs were trying to surrender when the atom bomb leveled Nagasaki."

Clearly, the American government and Brainwashing Machine had not got their lies straight by the end of 1945 !!!
.
Simplified interpretation of complex events never paints an accurate picture, which is likely your intent to begin with.
"The surrender of Imperial Japan was announced on August 15 and formally signed on September 2, 1945, bringing the hostilities of World War II to a close. By the end of July 1945, the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) was incapable of conducting major operations and an Allied invasion of Japan was imminent. Together with the British Empire and China, the United States called for the unconditional surrender of the Japanese armed forces in the Potsdam Declaration on July 26, 1945—the alternative being "prompt and utter destruction". While publicly stating their intent to fight on to the bitter end, Japan's leaders (the Supreme Council for the Direction of the War, also known as the "Big Six") were privately making entreaties to the still-neutral Soviet Union to mediate peace on terms more favorable to the Japanese. Meanwhile, the Soviets were preparing to attack Japanese forces in Manchuria and Korea (in addition to South Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands) in fulfillment of promises they had secretly made to the United States and the United Kingdom at the Tehran and Yalta Conferences.
On August 6, 1945, at 8:15 AM local time, the United States detonated an atomic bomb over the Japanese city of Hiroshima. Sixteen hours later, American President Harry S. Truman called again for Japan's surrender, warning them to "expect a rain of ruin from the air, the like of which has never been seen on this earth." Late in the evening of August 8, 1945, in accordance with the Yalta agreements, but in violation of the Soviet–Japanese Neutrality Pact, the Soviet Union declared war on Japan, and soon after midnight on August 9, 1945, the Soviet Union invaded the Imperial Japanese puppet state of Manchukuo. Later in the day, the United States dropped a second atomic bomb, this time on the Japanese city of Nagasaki. Following these events, Emperor Hirohito intervened and ordered the Supreme Council for the Direction of the War to accept the terms the Allies had set down in the Potsdam Declaration for ending the war. After several more days of behind-the-scenes negotiations and a failed coup d'état, Emperor Hirohito gave a recorded radio address across the Empire on August 15. In the radio address, called the Jewel Voice Broadcast (玉音放送 Gyokuon-hōsō), he announced the surrender of Japan to the Allies."
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Old October 1st, 2017, 11:52 PM   #12
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It took GOD intervening for them to quit. And still they wonder why we forced them to demilitarize and accept perpetual occupation.
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 02:37 PM   #13
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'
Debate over the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki
The bombings as war crimes

Quote:
Szilard, who had gone on to play a major role in the Manhattan Project, argued:
"Let me say only this much to the moral issue involved: Suppose Germany had developed two bombs before we had any bombs. And suppose Germany had dropped one bomb, say, on Rochester and the other on Buffalo, and then having run out of bombs she would have lost the war. Can anyone doubt that we would then have defined the dropping of atomic bombs on cities as a war crime, and that we would have sentenced the Germans who were guilty of this crime to death at Nuremberg and hanged them?"

The 1946 United States Strategic Bombing Survey, written by Paul Nitze, concluded that the atomic bombs had been unnecessary to the winning of the war....Nitze reported : "Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts, and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey's opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945, and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated."
emphasis added

So what do we believe --- top scientists and senior American officials and generals, or the crap served up by the popular media?
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 03:19 PM   #14
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Had the United States not used atomics we would have used firebombing and many more would have died. Remember Tokyo? More than 100,000 people died, a million were homeless, and 40 square kilometers of Tokyo were burned to the ground. More people were killed in the Tokyo firebombing of March 9-10 than in the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki five months later
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 03:40 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
Had the United States not used atomics we would have used firebombing and many more would have died. Remember Tokyo? More than 100,000 people died, a million were homeless, and 40 square kilometers of Tokyo were burned to the ground. More people were killed in the Tokyo firebombing of March 9-10 than in the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki five months later
The Japanese government was on the verge of surrendering, as was well known to the highest levels of the US government. But they were determined to test their satanic weapons on innocent civilians.

Yet more [more!!] quotes from US military commanders:

"The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace. The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military point of view, in the defeat of Japan."
----Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet

"The use of [the atomic bombs] at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.... The lethal possibilities of atomic warfare in the future are frightening. My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children."
----Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy, Chief of Staff to President Truman
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 04:54 PM   #16
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President Truman had signed the Potsdam Declaration with our allies on July 26, 1945 that mandated unconditional surrender for Japan, but the concepts outlined in the Japanese peace feelers would have left them with their empire virtually intact and not unconditional surrender.
On July 28, 1945, the Japanese government had publically addressed the Potsdam Declaration with “Mokusatsu” which the Japanese press mistranslated into English as “rejected” when it actually had a much more subtle meaning of “to kill with silence” or simply, “ignore.” The first and second kanji characters forming the expression meant “silence” and “kill” respectively, and their juxtaposition implies “to kill with silent contempt”, and not simply “reject.” With the apparent Japanese rejection of the Potsdam Declaration, the decision was made to use whatever force was needed to end American bloodshed.
The Japanese had, in fact, put out “peace” feelers through the Russians, but the Japanese concept of “surrender” was altogether different than what was required by the Potsdam Declaration. They had approached the Russians to be mediators as shown in the Togo-sato correspondence. The Japanese in Japan thought that the Russians would be mediators, while the Japanese foreign minister in Russia was telling them the exact opposite! The Japanese in Japan were living in a dreamland. The Japanese government was imagining giving back the Pacific islands, and essentially keeping everything else. They were not imagining returning Burma, the Dutch colonies, the French colonies, occupation of Japan, or punishment of war criminals. Japan would surrender if certain conditions were met: (1) preservation of the emperor; (2) that Japan was not to be occupied; (3) that the Japanese armed forces be disbanded voluntarily; (4) that war criminals would be prosecuted by Japanese courts in Japan.
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 05:06 PM   #17
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The Japanese government was anxious to surrender. The only item they were still trying to maintain was the preservation of the Emperor. How ironic that MacArthur decided that the US needed the Emperor for efficiently managing Japan !

And for other apologists for the Satanic evils of the United States government :

In the documentary The Fog of War, former U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara recalls that General Curtis LeMay, who relayed the Presidential order to drop nuclear bombs on Japan, said, "If we'd lost the war, we'd all have been prosecuted as war criminals."

"And I think he's right. He, and I'd say I, were behaving as war criminals. LeMay recognized that what he was doing would be thought immoral if his side had lost. But what makes it immoral if you lose and not immoral if you win?"
----Robert S. McNamara

Dwight D. Eisenhower wrote in his memoir The White House Years :

"In 1945 Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression, and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives."

LINK
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 02:05 PM   #18
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I think the people responsible for this atomic crime were much worse than ravening, blood-thirsty monsters.

They were cold-hearted, pitiless, inhuman practitioners of Realpolitik and scientific vivisection.

They had two bombs, one uranium and the other plutonium, and they were not going to pass up the opportunity to test the differential effects on two, undamaged, cities. The human cost to civilians was a matter of indifference to them.

There was also the bonus effect that it would scare Stalin and the Soviets.

I regard the inhumanity and evil of these American "leaders" to be no different than the worst of what Hitler and Stalin were capable.

The inability of many Americans to see these simple facts of history I regard as childishness, and indicates to me how unsuitable such people are to be leaders on the world stage.
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Old October 10th, 2017, 11:15 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numan View Post
'
I think the people responsible for this atomic crime were much worse than ravening, blood-thirsty monsters.

They were cold-hearted, pitiless, inhuman practitioners of Realpolitik and scientific vivisection.

They had two bombs, one uranium and the other plutonium, and they were not going to pass up the opportunity to test the differential effects on two, undamaged, cities. The human cost to civilians was a matter of indifference to them.

There was also the bonus effect that it would scare Stalin and the Soviets.

I regard the inhumanity and evil of these American "leaders" to be no different than the worst of what Hitler and Stalin were capable.

The inability of many Americans to see these simple facts of history I regard as childishness, and indicates to me how unsuitable such people are to be leaders on the world stage.
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It was Japan that invaded America. Do keep that in mind, getting mad at the wasps for sting the idiot that hit their hive with a stick doesn't really make sense.
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Old October 11th, 2017, 09:52 AM   #20
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I know I have a somewhat odd attitude towards the American nuclear strikes on Japanese cities and goes along the lines of “well... so bloody what!” I know we now live in cosy world of human rights and love thy neighbour and moral justice, but war is nasty business and total war is just plain and simple shitty with a capital Shitty. I wonder, had the Japanese a nuclear weapon would they have used it? Who knows but it stopped a shitty war in its tracks. So tough titty on the japs really... please feel free to pick the bones out of that.
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