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Old October 11th, 2017, 03:31 PM   #1
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What does "America First" mean to you or do you disagree with it?

One of the main thrusts of Trump was "Make America First!" does that mean anything to you? If so what does it mean to you?
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Old October 11th, 2017, 03:43 PM   #2
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One of the main thrusts of Trump was "Make America First!" does that mean anything to you? If so what does it mean to you?
America First to me means forwarding the precepts of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness for every citizen of America. It means protecting the reputation and strength of our country and defending it where needed. It means defending the weak and limiting the strong. It means ensuring freedom is tantamount.
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Old October 11th, 2017, 04:34 PM   #3
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'
"It is not reasonable that a wise man should hazard himself for his country,
and endanger wisdom for a set of fools."

--- Theodorus of Cyrene

I have utter contempt for jingoism, and bare tolerance for patriotism --- like religion, it is too easily corrupted.

I have deep respect for the "better angels" of America, but at present the angelic choir of America is drowned out by the profoundly evil cacophony of corrupt politicians, financiers, media, and the deeply embedded cancer of the War Machine and its tentacles thrust into every crevice of American society.

If America were "first", it would be a paragon of reason, balance, science and art. Lying would be abhorred, as also would be its near relation, hypocrisy. Peace and non-violence would be deeply respected and embedded in everyday courtesy and kindliness.

It would take its international responsibilities seriously, and do everything possible to avoid fanning the fires of conflict in other nations. Its leading industry would definitely not be the War Machine and its satanic sins.

As a nation with 5% of the world's population and consuming 25% of the world's resources, the United States definitely owes the world more than it is delivering to it.
.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 11:14 AM   #4
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The Republic has become corrupt, decadent and too sure of it's dominion over the world. We shall fall to the same fate aa the Athenians and Romans before us.
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Old October 12th, 2017, 02:11 PM   #5
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The Republic has become corrupt, decadent and too sure of it's dominion over the world. We shall fall to the same fate aa the Athenians and Romans before us.
This is likely, but as we have the history to guide us it may not come to pass quickly unless we are stupid...which it certainly seems we are.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 03:10 AM   #6
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I'm reminded of the air conditioning manufacturer, Carrier from Indianapolis. Trump intervened with a phone call to the CEO of Carrier after the announcement that they were moving their facilities to Monterrey, Mexico and would termintate the employment of 1400 employees. Trump promised up to USD7M in "tax incentives" thus Carrier changed their minds so while most kept their jobs 550 still lost theirs.
Do you agree President Trump deserve praise for this?
Do you agree that "tax incentives" should be given to all companies to preserve jobs?

The story is slightly tainted though, Carrier is owned by United Technologies Corporation who after the announcement of trump subsequently went on the announce further job loses in their group, 700 from their plant in Huntington and Rexnord Corp, Indianapolis losing a further 375. Hope was that the say deal would be extended to those employees as with Carrier, however, Carrier had contracts with the US military the others did not.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 07:16 AM   #7
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I'm reminded of the air conditioning manufacturer, Carrier from Indianapolis. Trump intervened with a phone call to the CEO of Carrier after the announcement that they were moving their facilities to Monterrey, Mexico and would termintate the employment of 1400 employees. Trump promised up to USD7M in "tax incentives" thus Carrier changed their minds so while most kept their jobs 550 still lost theirs.
Do you agree President Trump deserve praise for this?
Do you agree that "tax incentives" should be given to all companies to preserve jobs?

The story is slightly tainted though, Carrier is owned by United Technologies Corporation who after the announcement of trump subsequently went on the announce further job loses in their group, 700 from their plant in Huntington and Rexnord Corp, Indianapolis losing a further 375. Hope was that the say deal would be extended to those employees as with Carrier, however, Carrier had contracts with the US military the others did not.
I'm not sure losing tax revenue to save jobs that get eliminated is a win.

Trump's an idiot. The best idiot. The most fantastic, bigly idiot to ever exist. I'll give him credit for that.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 07:43 AM   #8
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I'm not sure losing tax revenue to save jobs that get eliminated is a win.
Do you think that there are obligations within communities to protect communities from adversity; that their is a moral obligation to ones fellow citizens - a communal patriotism? Or do you think that irrespective of obligations and communitiy the market should determind the forces at work on the community?
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Old October 13th, 2017, 08:19 AM   #9
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Do you think that there are obligations within communities to protect communities from adversity; that their is a moral obligation to ones fellow citizens - a communal patriotism? Or do you think that irrespective of obligations and communitiy the market should determind the forces at work on the community?
I think we need to stop lying to ourselves. Those jobs aren't being outsourced or lost due to bad tax policies. They've been automated and are never coming back. Anyone trying to 'save' such jobs is just lying for votes and doesn't give a shit about the people. When tax cuts (that will benefit the rich politicians) are offered as a 'solution' I don't give them credit. I give them hell.
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Old October 13th, 2017, 10:08 AM   #10
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Those jobs aren't being outsourced or lost due to bad tax policies. They've been automated and are never coming back.
Lets stay with Carrier for a moment. The tax incentives extended to Carrier were conditional. They were based on Carrier investing in new equipment and on achieving specified performance related targets. Do you think in those circumstances it was right to allow the use of taxes to assist workers to keep their jobs in an already economically fragile area?

Generations of workers at Carrier and the other plants and companies owned by United Technologies have fulfilled their communal obligation and have paid their taxes. Do you think it right that with sufficient caveats relating to the provision of tax payer money there is a moral obligation on the country to assist such a community?
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Old October 13th, 2017, 10:26 AM   #11
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America First to me means forwarding the precepts of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness for every citizen of America. It means protecting the reputation and strength of our country and defending it where needed. It means defending the weak and limiting the strong. It means ensuring freedom is tantamount.
In effect itís more a patriotic slogan than an obligation one would extend to communities or individuals?
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Old October 13th, 2017, 10:58 AM   #12
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In effect itís more a patriotic slogan than an obligation one would extend to communities or individuals?
Pretty much....fortunately the population seems to be stepping up to retain some semblance of what it actually means while the Government ignores it for money.
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Old October 16th, 2017, 06:09 AM   #13
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It means 'Stop thinking and salute the tattered flag'.
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Old October 16th, 2017, 08:28 AM   #14
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It means 'Stop thinking and salute the tattered flag'.
Nowadays, sure. Maybe during the Red Scare too. For most of our history though America has been synonymous with liberty and to put America 1st was to put freedom before tyranny. That wasn't a bad thing.

We've forgotten who we are though. 9/11 broke us (most of us anyway), turned us into xenophobes and cowards and opened up the way for religious extremism to take hold. So here we are...
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Old October 16th, 2017, 08:59 AM   #15
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We've forgotten who we are though. 9/11 broke us (most of us anyway), turned us into xenophobes and cowards and opened up the way for religious extremism to take hold. So here we are...
Do you really feel that way? Sure, there are always extremists in any sample of people but in the round Americans are still moderate people... I mean the population at large are still well mannered polite folk living their normal lives - no less or more extreme than any other country?
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Old October 16th, 2017, 09:13 AM   #16
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Do you really feel that way? Sure, there are always extremists in any sample of people but in the round Americans are still moderate people... I mean the population at large are still well mannered polite folk living their normal lives - no less or more extreme than any other country?
While this is accurate the "Silent Majority" was never a majority and is anything but silent anymore. The propaganda machine created by Trumps "Fake News" hypnosis has become self perpetuating amongst the most vulnerable to its power and infiltrated our population like a virus. Until he is removed it will probably keep spreading and eventually kill.
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Old October 16th, 2017, 10:15 AM   #17
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Do you really feel that way? Sure, there are always extremists in any sample of people but in the round Americans are still moderate people... I mean the population at large are still well mannered polite folk living their normal lives - no less or more extreme than any other country?
I'm sure the Arabs were saying the same thing after the Mongols took over. Now look at them. Give it 100 years and we'll be pleasant all the way until a priest tells us to kill the infidel. We'll be the same as Africa, crazy Christians killing everyone that doesn't worship the dead god.
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Old October 16th, 2017, 04:33 PM   #18
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Nowadays, sure. Maybe during the Red Scare too. For most of our history though America has been synonymous with liberty and to put America 1st was to put freedom before tyranny. That wasn't a bad thing.
That is an apt way of putting it.

The USA has always been a more violent and hypocritical place than many other countries, but putting freedom before tyranny (for whites and men, at least) was a virtue which the USA possessed to some degree.

World War II was the point at which national virtue began to disintegrate, and ever since, militaristic corruption and the brainwashing of "false consciousness" has increasingly overwhelmed the nation and its people.
.
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Old October 16th, 2017, 04:45 PM   #19
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Do you really feel that way? Sure, there are always extremists in any sample of people but in the round Americans are still moderate people... I mean the population at large are still well mannered polite folk living their normal lives - no less or more extreme than any other country?
There speaks a person who has never lived in the United States.

You, especially as a Briton, would NOT find Americans "well-mannered, polite folk".

The rudeness and meanness of Americans is often unconscious and unintended. However, these characteristics are not only noticeable, but obtrusive.

One certainly can not tar everybody with one brush, but significant portions of the population can flash into violence, and are afflicted by barely suppressed hysteria.
.
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Old October 21st, 2017, 05:19 AM   #20
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There speaks a person who has never lived in the United States.

You, especially as a Briton, would NOT find Americans "well-mannered, polite folk".

The rudeness and meanness of Americans is often unconscious and unintended. However, these characteristics are not only noticeable, but obtrusive.

One certainly can not tar everybody with one brush, but significant portions of the population can flash into violence, and are afflicted by barely suppressed hysteria.
.
The fact is that - far more than the old USSR - America seems to fix it so that only decent, charming people are allowed out. When I read posts from the trumpers I can see that you are very obviously right, but over here I've yet to meet an American I don't like.
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