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Old October 25th, 2017, 07:01 AM   #1
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No room left.

It seems the Republican party and base have evolved beyond conservatism into ....whatever is now stands for. This leaves people like me, Collins, Corker, McCain....etc...out in the cold. The plethora of retirements and upcoming defection do not bode well and many voters (people I know) are likely to avoid voting or even vote Dem just to be vindictive after the rejection.
In my opinion we are watching the self destruction of the once "Grand Ol' Party" because of abandonment of the Compassionate Conservative and I am no longer upset about it...Good Riddance.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 10:44 AM   #2
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. The time is ripe for a pro-labor conservative party. If all the populist talk about saving jobs and upholding traditional American values actually resulted in action, the Repubs (and likely the Dems as well to a lesser extent) would be swept aside by angry voters. If someone like Trump sans the crazy and speaking honestly ever comes along, the conservative landscape in America will be unrecognizable inside 2 election cycles and not unrecognizable becuase they turned America into a dystopia.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 10:52 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by David View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The time is ripe for a pro-labor conservative party. If all the populist talk about saving jobs and upholding traditional American values actually resulted in action, the Repubs (and likely the Dems as well to a lesser extent) would be swept aside by angry voters. If someone like Trump sans the crazy and speaking honestly ever comes along, the conservative landscape in America will be unrecognizable inside 2 election cycles and not unrecognizable becuase they turned America into a dystopia.
Unfortunately, between Money in politics and rabid populace combined with gerrymandered elections we the people no longer have the power to enact change.
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Old October 26th, 2017, 02:58 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
It seems the Republican party and base have evolved beyond conservatism into ....whatever is now stands for. This leaves people like me, Collins, Corker, McCain....etc...out in the cold. The plethora of retirements and upcoming defection do not bode well and many voters (people I know) are likely to avoid voting or even vote Dem just to be vindictive after the rejection.
In my opinion we are watching the self destruction of the once "Grand Ol' Party" because of abandonment of the Compassionate Conservative and I am no longer upset about it...Good Riddance.
Well I would say you aren't conservative and you likely never were. I'm not familiar with Cullens or Corker but McCain isn't conservative Donald Trump is a very moderate conservative. A conservative candidate would have been Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio.

I don't know why you think you're conservative.

Do believe in lowering taxes getting rid of government agencies and spending such as the EPA the DEA and so forth? Do you believe in abortion how about the death penalty?

If you don't believe in lowering taxes and getting rid of wasteful government spending on s*** like the EPA you are not fiscally conservative. If you support woman's right to choose to abort their pregnancy or you oppose the death penalty for capital offenses you are not socially conservative. You clearly opposed the Second Amendment.

So What on earth is conservative about you or about your beliefs?

The lack of Democrats two suit your beliefs doesn't mean conservatives have gone away it means that Democrats are less Suited to your beliefs.

The political window has simply lurched to the left in the past couple of decades where in the fifties and sixties the far-left currently would be seen as extreme marxists bent on the Thousand Year Revolution
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Old October 26th, 2017, 03:11 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Polydectes View Post
Well I would say you aren't conservative and you likely never were. I'm not familiar with Cullens or Corker but McCain isn't conservative Donald Trump is a very moderate conservative. A conservative candidate would have been Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio.

I don't know why you think you're conservative.

Do believe in lowering taxes getting rid of government agencies and spending such as the EPA the DEA and so forth? Do you believe in abortion how about the death penalty?

If you don't believe in lowering taxes and getting rid of wasteful government spending on s*** like the EPA you are not fiscally conservative. If you support woman's right to choose to abort their pregnancy or you oppose the death penalty for capital offenses you are not socially conservative. You clearly opposed the Second Amendment.

So What on earth is conservative about you or about your beliefs?

The lack of Democrats two suit your beliefs doesn't mean conservatives have gone away it means that Democrats are less Suited to your beliefs.

The political window has simply lurched to the left in the past couple of decades where in the fifties and sixties the far-left currently would be seen as extreme marxists bent on the Thousand Year Revolution
I believed in Reagan conservatism sans his economic policies.
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Old October 26th, 2017, 04:26 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polydectes View Post
If you don't believe in lowering taxes and getting rid of wasteful government spending on s*** like the EPA you are not fiscally conservative. If you support woman's right to choose to abort their pregnancy or you oppose the death penalty for capital offenses you are not socially conservative. You clearly opposed the Second Amendment.
If you think you can live in a complex technological society without a great deal of annoying regulation, you are living in a delusional Cloud-Cuckooland.

You can have a complex technological society, or you can have a society without a great deal of regulation --- but you cannot have both.
.
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Old October 26th, 2017, 05:36 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
I believed in Reagan conservatism sans his economic policies.
Okay Ronald Reagan opposed abortion. He thought it was murder that you support that?

He also thought it was very important to fight drug trafficking. In fact I believe it was in his administration where the War on Drugs started.

He rejected funding for EPA he thought it was wasteful.

He opposed all civil rights bills that were presented.

He was a big proponent to prayer in school.

He was vehement Lee opposed to the Department of Education.

And he faught to remove controls an oil pricing and production.


No knowing you as long as I have I know you're pro-choice, I know you're all for this environment green nonsense. And you are quite an outspoken atheist. On another board you called all the problems with public schools brilliant.

So really the only things you could possibly agree with Reagan on that weren't fiscal are his views on oil and energy which I doubt you share those. And his views on the War on Drugs which I think he was wrong about.

Oh also he was for capital punishment. Not sure how you feel about that either.

So again what about you is conservative?
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Old October 26th, 2017, 05:38 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by numan View Post
If you think you can live in a complex technological society without a great deal of annoying regulation, you are living in a delusional Cloud-Cuckooland.

You can have a complex technological society, or you can have a society without a great deal of regulation --- but you cannot have both.
.
Okay I disagree but okay.
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Old October 27th, 2017, 08:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polydectes View Post
Okay Ronald Reagan opposed abortion. He thought it was murder that you support that?

He also thought it was very important to fight drug trafficking. In fact I believe it was in his administration where the War on Drugs started.

He rejected funding for EPA he thought it was wasteful.

He opposed all civil rights bills that were presented.

He was a big proponent to prayer in school.

He was vehement Lee opposed to the Department of Education.

And he faught to remove controls an oil pricing and production.


No knowing you as long as I have I know you're pro-choice, I know you're all for this environment green nonsense. And you are quite an outspoken atheist. On another board you called all the problems with public schools brilliant.

So really the only things you could possibly agree with Reagan on that weren't fiscal are his views on oil and energy which I doubt you share those. And his views on the War on Drugs which I think he was wrong about.

Oh also he was for capital punishment. Not sure how you feel about that either.

So again what about you is conservative?
Answering for myself here.

I'm pro-life.

I'm against the War on Drugs becuase prohibition is stupid. I do however think the dealing (but not use) of hard drugs should remain illegal and their use treated as a health problem.

The EPA is the definition of conservatism. Conservatism means conservation, not selling out to corporations. The NPS and EPA were the creations of 2 staunchly conservative presidents, Reagan was a corporate sell out.

Repubs have a rasism problem. Not being a racist doesn't preclude a person from being conservative.

I don't think it should be required but I'm all for students praying of their own accord. I'm also an advocate of religious education but outside specialized religious schools such classes should be electives.

Not a fan of public schools but I suspect my reasoning is quite different than canned responce most Repubs would offer.

As I said, Reagan was a sell out. Not wanting to give oil barons free reign over the country isn't the same thing as not being conservative.

I'm all for the death penalty for rape, unjustified murder and high crimes.

To be fair tecoyah said he was a Reagan conservative so I get your criticism. I however have never made that claim and take issue with the notion that not agreeing with Reagan's mind addled (let's remember he was suffering Alzheimer's throughout his presidency) policies disqualifies me from being conservative.
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Old October 27th, 2017, 11:43 AM   #10
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Answering for myself here.

I'm pro-life.

I'm against the War on Drugs becuase prohibition is stupid. I do however think the dealing (but not use) of hard drugs should remain illegal and their use treated as a health problem.
so pro-life cool. You take a liberal stance on the War on Drugs it's one I share. But I don't think it's a conservative stance.

Quote:
The EPA is the definition of conservatism. Conservatism means conservation, not selling out to corporations. The NPS and EPA were the creations of 2 staunchly conservative presidents, Reagan was a corporate sell out.
no the EPA is expanding government control which is decidedly not conservative at all. It is very liberal.

Quote:
Repubs have a rasism problem. Not being a racist doesn't preclude a person from being conservative.
I say b******* to that Republicans aren't racist. So that's something we disagree on.

Quote:
I don't think it should be required but I'm all for students praying of their own accord. I'm also an advocate of religious education but outside specialized religious schools such classes should be electives.
I honestly could care less about prayer in school. I would think forbidding someone from practicing their religion because of their location would be a violation of the First Amendment so that's not really up for debate as far as I'm concerned. So this is a position I'm not really conservative on.

Quote:
Not a fan of public schools but I suspect my reasoning is quite different than canned responce most Repubs would offer.
there are problems with the public school system I think they can be corrected without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I see a lot of value in public schools.

To be honest I have no idea how that lines up with conservative or liberal ideas.

Quote:
As I said, Reagan was a sell out. Not wanting to give oil barons free reign over the country isn't the same thing as not being conservative.
this is another case where I vehemently disagree with you. Government control equates to larger government that is the direct opposite of conservativeism

Quote:
I'm all for the death penalty for rape, unjustified murder and high crimes.
I support death penalty for capital offenses.

Quote:
To be fair tecoyah said he was a Reagan conservative so I get your criticism. I however have never made that claim and take issue with the notion that not agreeing with Reagan's mind addled (let's remember he was suffering Alzheimer's throughout his presidency) policies disqualifies me from being conservative.
I honestly View Reagan as more moderate. I don't line up with the conservative-liberal paradigm.

There are certain things I'm very liberal on there are certain things I'm very conservative on.

But for the most part I understand conservatives to be for smaller government. Meaning generally speaking government bloat such as EPA and other government regulations are absolutely not conservative. I don't care if it's a republican that does it or a largely conservative body that does it, it is creating regulation and inflating government influence that is not conservative.
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Old October 27th, 2017, 11:45 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
I believed in Reagan conservatism sans his economic policies.
So no response?

Look I don't care what you call yourself. It's just some of the things you say tend to go strongly against Ronald Reagan style conservatism.

Was my evaluation of your views incorrect? If so I would like for you to correct them so I don't make that mistake again.
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Old October 27th, 2017, 01:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polydectes View Post
So no response?

Look I don't care what you call yourself. It's just some of the things you say tend to go strongly against Ronald Reagan style conservatism.

Was my evaluation of your views incorrect? If so I would like for you to correct them so I don't make that mistake again.
Actually I just prefer to not respond to purposeful antagonism as it is not conducive to a useful discussion or forum function, you obviously came back here to play your little Clax game and irritate me into action and that is not going to happen. Do not expect further interaction with me.
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Old October 27th, 2017, 02:08 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
Actually I just prefer to not respond to purposeful antagonism as it is not conducive to a useful discussion or forum function, you obviously came back here to play your little Clax game and irritate me into action and that is not going to happen. Do not expect further interaction with me.
Translation you're not conservative and you know it you can't respond to it because you don't agree with most of what Reagan did socially.

This game is called debate. You are within your authority to ban me right now. You should go ahead and do that if it makes you feel better. But it won't make you right.
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Old October 27th, 2017, 07:10 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Polydectes View Post
so pro-life cool. You take a liberal stance on the War on Drugs it's one I share. But I don't think it's a conservative stance.

no the EPA is expanding government control which is decidedly not conservative at all. It is very liberal.

I say b******* to that Republicans aren't racist. So that's something we disagree on.

I honestly could care less about prayer in school. I would think forbidding someone from practicing their religion because of their location would be a violation of the First Amendment so that's not really up for debate as far as I'm concerned. So this is a position I'm not really conservative on.

there are problems with the public school system I think they can be corrected without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I see a lot of value in public schools.

To be honest I have no idea how that lines up with conservative or liberal ideas.

this is another case where I vehemently disagree with you. Government control equates to larger government that is the direct opposite of conservativeism

I support death penalty for capital offenses.


I honestly View Reagan as more moderate. I don't line up with the conservative-liberal paradigm.

There are certain things I'm very liberal on there are certain things I'm very conservative on.

But for the most part I understand conservatives to be for smaller government. Meaning generally speaking government bloat such as EPA and other government regulations are absolutely not conservative. I don't care if it's a republican that does it or a largely conservative body that does it, it is creating regulation and inflating government influence that is not conservative.
Small government is bumper sticker politicking that doesn't mean anything. How is ending the EPA so some rich person can get richer (and share the wealth with your 'conservative' politician) while me and mine die from toxic pollutants small government? How is them following up by legislating how I can have fun and have sex small government?

You're confusing corporatism for conservatism.
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Old October 27th, 2017, 08:39 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by David View Post
Small government is bumper sticker politicking that doesn't mean anything.
it's on bumper stickers precisely because it means something. Denial of that notwithstanding

Quote:
How is ending the EPA so some rich person can get richer (and share the wealth with your 'conservative' politician) while me and mine die from toxic pollutants small government?
assuming the EPA is political equivalent to Jesus Christ it only does good and is it to corrupt pointless bit of government bloat, it would still be government that gets to control things that if it didn't it wouldn't.

Quote:
How is them following up by legislating how I can have fun and have sex small government?
they're not conservative on everything.

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You're confusing corporatism for conservatism.
you're confusing authoritarianism with altruism
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