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Old December 21st, 2017, 04:58 PM   #1
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America: Jekyll and Hyde

I have been reading a re-print of a book that was extremely well-respected in Britain at the beginning of the Second World War. It is titled, Germany: Jekyll and Hyde, and I think it still has something to say to our time. It was written by Sebastian Haffner, a German journalist who married a Jewish wife and became an exile in England before the outbreak of war. Since I also am an exile from a violent, corrupt regime, I found what he had to say very revealing.

At the time he wrote, there were two views dominant in Britain about Nazi Germany. One view was that the war was not against the German people, but a war for their liberation. The other view was that "the Germans now had the government they had always wanted and were all Nazis at heart. The purpose of the war, according to this line, was not to liberate the Germans but to render them and their country innocuous for all time coming."

When I look at the United States, the war-making, corrupt nation from which I come, I think a combination of these two views is proper. First, the United States must be rendered innocuous for all time to come, then, and only then, can its people be liberated.

Haffner had become convinced "not merely that the Reich was an entity too big and strong for the rest of Europe to live with, but that its existence ensured certain disastrous patterns of German behaviour: arrogance, expansionism, the worship of force." Obviously, a view which can be applied to the United States today.

Haffner detested people who, in his view, did not know the meaning of respect. At one point, he lets himself go in a scathing physical caricature of the Nazis: "These corpulent, fleshy, flabby men with clumsy gait, unwrinkled fat faces, cold fish-like eyes and brutal, shapeless mouths are a fearful living picture stalking about as a warning. That is how men look to whom nothing is sacred. That is what they come to."

The comparison to all too many of America's rulers is all too apparent.
.
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Old December 21st, 2017, 05:01 PM   #2
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Don't you ever get tired of your own BSing? I know I would, If I were you.
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Old December 21st, 2017, 05:42 PM   #3
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What strikes one about the United States is that, after the Second World War, the United States took up where the Nazis left off, and developed their totalitarain system to its logical conclusion. In fact, the Nazis won the war---in the United States.

The Americans took up the superior technology of the Germans---rocket ships, jet airplanes, tank warfare, aerial blitzkrieg, submarine warfare---economic and social organization---autobahns [for moving military hardware], propaganda and its co-ordination with the mass media, the subordination of all economic activity to the military-industrial complex, the National Security State, the rampant, arrogant nationalism, incredible corruption, utter contempt for the people they ruled.

Can you recognize America from this 1940 book?

The Nazi leaders have not worked at all for Germany. They do not love Germany. They are entirely indifferent to her, and never take the trouble to know or question her. To destroy her would mean nothing to them.

The Nazi leaders love Germany in the way an inconsiderate racehorse owner "loves" his horse; he wants it to win the race, nothing more. To this end it has been trained and ridden as hard and as inconsiderately as possible....Whether it comes to grief or is henceforth lamed for life---thereby losing its happiness, character and national identity---are questions that do not concern him....

They have treated Germany like a conquered land, a colony to be used and abused without consideration, to be exploited to the full, and its national spirit, happiness, and well-being to be ignored....
Never, in a word, has a ruling class felt so little love for their country.


THE BIG LIE---invented in Germany, but made bigger, fatter, quicker AND CHEAPER in America.
.
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Old December 22nd, 2017, 05:10 AM   #4
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one wonders if the duke of Windsor was as obsessed with Britain after abandoning her?
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Old December 22nd, 2017, 05:56 AM   #5
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one wonders if the duke of Windsor was as obsessed with Britain after abandoning her?
Probably not. Likely had no regrets.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 03:08 PM   #6
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Machiavelli is most noted for his short treatise The Prince, which he wrote for a limited political purpose, to exemplify the best way to unify the war-torn Italy of his time.

His much more solid work, The Discourses on Livy, he wrote as a guide to the survival of a republic once it is formed. How sad that Machiavelli is not better known for this work!

Unlike virtually all of the political commentators of the past, who valued agreement and civic concord in the structure of the State, Machiavelli stressed the value of strenuous struggle and disagreement in the contending forces of the Republic.

This aspect of Machiavelli's thought was well known to the Founding Fathers of the American Republic: how not so, since these Terrorist Insurrectionists had done so much to create civic discord in the America of their time! ---

This predilection of the Founding Fathers was built into their ramshackle Constitution, and was certainly borne out in the intestine discords of succeeding American history. However, in more recent times, the ever more powerful oligarchs of America have bent every effort to destroy this essential element of American Constitutional arrangements and end the beneficial class warfare which has been necessary to all real advances in American society.

Machiavelli's comments on the similar destruction of the Roman Republic are instructive:

"It seemed that in Rome there was a very great harmony between the Plebs and the Senate (the Tarquins having been driven out), and that the nobles had laid aside their haughtiness and had become of a popular spirit, and supportable to everyone even to the lowest. This deception was hidden, nor was the cause seen while the Tarquins lived, whom the nobility feared, and having fear that the maltreated plebs might not side with them (the nobles) they behaved themselves humanely toward them: but as soon as the Tarquins were dead, and that fear left the Nobles, they begun to vent upon the plebs that poison which they had kept within their breasts, and in every way they could they offended them...."

If we equate the Tarquins with the Soviets and communists, the nobles with the oligarchs, and the plebs with the American populace, then it is clear that while the oligarchs were forced to behave with a certain minimal humanity toward the populace after the Second World War until the collapse of the Soviet Union --- in fear that the restive mob might turn toward socialism and receive support from the socialist countries of the world --- once that brake was released, the inherent greed and ruthlessness of the oligarchs raged unchecked and has led us to the present situation of near collapse of the American political system.

As Machiavelli advises us, only by returning to a rough, healthy equality of the contending forces of society can the United States escape the fate of the Roman Republic and its collapse into autocracy.
.

Last edited by numan; December 23rd, 2017 at 03:11 PM.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 03:39 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by numan View Post
'
Machiavelli is most noted for his short treatise The Prince, which he wrote for a limited political purpose, to exemplify the best way to unify the war-torn Italy of his time.

His much more solid work, The Discourses on Livy, he wrote as a guide to the survival of a republic once it is formed. How sad that Machiavelli is not better known for this work!

Unlike virtually all of the political commentators of the past, who valued agreement and civic concord in the structure of the State, Machiavelli stressed the value of strenuous struggle and disagreement in the contending forces of the Republic.

This aspect of Machiavelli's thought was well known to the Founding Fathers of the American Republic: how not so, since these Terrorist Insurrectionists had done so much to create civic discord in the America of their time! ---

This predilection of the Founding Fathers was built into their ramshackle Constitution, and was certainly borne out in the intestine discords of succeeding American history. However, in more recent times, the ever more powerful oligarchs of America have bent every effort to destroy this essential element of American Constitutional arrangements and end the beneficial class warfare which has been necessary to all real advances in American society.

Machiavelli's comments on the similar destruction of the Roman Republic are instructive:

"It seemed that in Rome there was a very great harmony between the Plebs and the Senate (the Tarquins having been driven out), and that the nobles had laid aside their haughtiness and had become of a popular spirit, and supportable to everyone even to the lowest. This deception was hidden, nor was the cause seen while the Tarquins lived, whom the nobility feared, and having fear that the maltreated plebs might not side with them (the nobles) they behaved themselves humanely toward them: but as soon as the Tarquins were dead, and that fear left the Nobles, they begun to vent upon the plebs that poison which they had kept within their breasts, and in every way they could they offended them...."

If we equate the Tarquins with the Soviets and communists, the nobles with the oligarchs, and the plebs with the American populace, then it is clear that while the oligarchs were forced to behave with a certain minimal humanity toward the populace after the Second World War until the collapse of the Soviet Union --- in fear that the restive mob might turn toward socialism and receive support from the socialist countries of the world --- once that brake was released, the inherent greed and ruthlessness of the oligarchs raged unchecked and has led us to the present situation of near collapse of the American political system.

As Machiavelli advises us, only by returning to a rough, healthy equality of the contending forces of society can the United States escape the fate of the Roman Republic and its collapse into autocracy.
.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 02:24 PM   #8
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From Machiavelli's Discourses on Livy:

"...the people is nothing else other than a brute animal, which ((although by nature ferocious and wild)) has always been brought up in prison and servitude, (and) which later being left by chance free in a field, (and) not being accustomed to (obtain) food or not knowing where to find shelter for refuge, becomes prey to the first one who seeks to enchain it again. This same thing happens to a people, who being accustomed to living under governments of others, not knowing how to reason either on public defense or offense, not knowing the Princes or being known by them, return readily under a yoke....

A CORRUPT PEOPLE COMING INTO THEIR LIBERTY CAN MAINTAIN ITSELF FREE ONLY WITH THE GREATEST DIFFICULTY

But there is no more striking example to be seen than that of Rome, which after the Tarquins had been driven out, was able quickly to resume and maintain that liberty; but after the death of Caesar, Caligula, and Nero, and after the extinction of all the line of Caesar, she could not only never maintain her liberty, but was unable to reestablish it. And so great a difference in events in the same City did not result from anything else other than (the fact that) the Roman People in the time of Tarquin was not yet corrupt, and in the latter time (Caesar's) it became very corrupt."


The society of the USA became fatally corrupt after the Second World War, due to the unconstitutional establishment of the National Security State and the cancerous entrenchment of the Military-Industrial Complex.

Any brief period of revolt against their masters, such as took place during and after the Vietnam War, must inevitably come to nothing due to the thorough-going corruption of American society at all its levels and nearly all its aspects --- just as a return to republican virtue became impossible in Rome after that society succumbed to the power of the Emperors.
.

Last edited by numan; January 3rd, 2018 at 02:32 PM.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 02:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numan View Post
'
From Machiavelli's Discourses on Livy:

"...the people is nothing else other than a brute animal, which ((although by nature ferocious and wild)) has always been brought up in prison and servitude, (and) which later being left by chance free in a field, (and) not being accustomed to (obtain) food or not knowing where to find shelter for refuge, becomes prey to the first one who seeks to enchain it again. This same thing happens to a people, who being accustomed to living under governments of others, not knowing how to reason either on public defense or offense, not knowing the Princes or being known by them, return readily under a yoke....

A CORRUPT PEOPLE COMING INTO THEIR LIBERTY CAN MAINTAIN ITSELF FREE ONLY WITH THE GREATEST DIFFICULTY

But there is no more striking example to be seen than that of Rome, which after the Tarquins had been driven out, was able quickly to resume and maintain that liberty; but after the death of Caesar, Caligula, and Nero, and after the extinction of all the line of Caesar, she could not only never maintain her liberty, but was unable to reestablish it. And so great a difference in events in the same City did not result from anything else other than (the fact that) the Roman People in the time of Tarquin was not yet corrupt, and in the latter time (Caesar's) it became very corrupt."


The society of the USA became fatally corrupt after the Second World War, due to unconstitutional establishment of the National Security State and the cancerous entrenchment of the Military-Industrial Complex.

Any brief period of revolt against their masters, such as took place during and after the Vietnam War, must inevitably come to nothing due to the thorough-going corruption of American society at all its levels and nearly all its aspects --- just as a return to republican virtue became impossible in Rome after that society succumbed to the power of the Emperors.
.
Not really. If there was some actual evidence, you might have some actual credibility!
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Old January 11th, 2018, 01:50 AM   #10
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just as a return to republican virtue became impossible in Rome after that society succumbed to the power of the Emperors.
.
An interesting thought process.... The values of presumed republicanism was just a proccess that allowed the Knights to accumulate power and wealth. The real values of "Republicanism" came when the legion Legates started to wield power when they decided it was right for them to wield it. Imagine if you will what a cabal of right placed people within the military and intelligence community could achieve if they decided that the current Emperor was likened to Emperor Gaius Germanicus..... would there be a modern Cassius Chaerea
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Old January 12th, 2018, 03:46 PM   #11
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Imagine if you will what a cabal of right placed people within the military and intelligence community could achieve if they decided that the current Emperor was likened to Emperor Gaius Germanicus..... would there be a modern Cassius Chaerea
That already happened in 1963.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 04:07 PM   #12
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That already happened in 1963.
.
Sounds about right when your cheese fell off your cracker!

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