The Political Fray - Political Forum
Go Back   Political Fray > The Political Fray > Government and Politics

Government and Politics Government and Politics Forum including laws, elections, government structure, and political theory


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old June 16th, 2009, 09:44 AM   #1
myp
Founding Father
 
myp's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: us
Posts: 5,841

Banning Guns- it does not work

The debate on banning guns heated up once more after the election of President Obama. I am against such action, as I believe it is against the 2nd amendment and I think people should have the right to defend themselves.

Not only that, but I think banning guns won't actually reduce crime because it is people that kill people, not guns. Murderers will just find other things to use and at the same time crime rates will go up because a gun black market is bound to rise up.

England banned guns and they are seeing crime rates go up (same was the story with Australia.) Now, some are proposing anti-stab knives: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6501720.ece

How far does this go? When will people realize that this sort of thing will not stop crime, it will only further it?
myp is offline  
Old June 16th, 2009, 12:26 PM   #2
Congressional Leader
 
DodgeFB's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Undisclosed
Posts: 2,751

If I wanted to rob a house I would love knowing that house was unarmed. Around here most homes have guns. (I slept with one of mine a couple of nights ago) And many people carry one when they go out. Some legally and others maybe not so legal.

If someone starts shooting people where people are armed the slaughter can be stopped before the police can even start to the scene.
DodgeFB is offline  
Old June 16th, 2009, 07:03 PM   #3
myp
Founding Father
 
myp's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: us
Posts: 5,841

Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeFB View Post
If I wanted to rob a house I would love knowing that house was unarmed. Around here most homes have guns. (I slept with one of mine a couple of nights ago) And many people carry one when they go out. Some legally and others maybe not so legal.

If someone starts shooting people where people are armed the slaughter can be stopped before the police can even start to the scene.
Exactly and if guns were banned, the criminals would still have them through the black market and the good citizens wouldn't, which could actually lead to more deaths.
myp is offline  
Old June 18th, 2009, 02:26 AM   #4
Secretary of State
 
deanhills's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,187

Quote:
Originally Posted by myp View Post
but I think banning guns won't actually reduce crime because it is people that kill people, not guns.
Exactly my take on it too. The real problem is with society. There has to be ills in it that won't be fixed with more legislation. Perhaps people need to take care of people in a much better place, and the present system is not supporting that?
deanhills is offline  
Old June 18th, 2009, 01:05 PM   #5
myp
Founding Father
 
myp's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: us
Posts: 5,841

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanhills View Post
Perhaps people need to take care of people in a much better place, and the present system is not supporting that?
What do you mean by that? I really think that the best way to decrease crime and murder is to improve education and prosperity. There are many arguments on how to do that, but that is for another thread (my argument is of course through the free market- others may suggest the government.) The bottom line though, is that prohibitions have never, are not, and will never work.
myp is offline  
Old June 18th, 2009, 08:18 PM   #6
Founding Father
 
Joined: Jan 2013
From: Maryland
Posts: 316

I don't think ive ever seen any stats that could even come close to proving gun crimes are committed more often with legal weapons. It's always stolen guns, smuggled guns, e.g. Like somebody said, guns don't kill people, people kill people. The vast majority of gun crimes and accidents are committed by guns obtained illegally or careless homeowners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by myp View Post
The bottom line though, is that prohibitions have never, are not, and will never work.
Vry true - alcohol, guns, drugs, sanctions, e.g. - they never work.
omej is offline  
Old June 19th, 2009, 01:14 PM   #7
Representative
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Florida, USA
Posts: 422

I absolutely hate the things. I really think a lot of children are killed to make up for the few people who actually successfully defend themselves with guns.

That aside, I would like to know why it is all or nothing. At least automatic weapons should be banned. Unless you think it's OK for someone to 'defend' themselves from a robber by killing everybody in sight.

I have to conceded that when the concealed carry law went through in Florida, the crime rate went down. It seems you don't really have to have a gun, you just have to let the criminals think you might.

But now Miami is the most dangerous large city in the country. The safest? New York!
curious is offline  
Old June 19th, 2009, 01:19 PM   #8
Representative
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Florida, USA
Posts: 422

Quote:
Originally Posted by omeythehomie View Post
I don't think ive ever seen any stats that could even come close to proving gun crimes are committed more often with legal weapons. It's always stolen guns, smuggled guns, e.g. Like somebody said, guns don't kill people, people kill people. The vast majority of gun crimes and accidents are committed by guns obtained illegally or careless homeowners.


Vry true - alcohol, guns, drugs, sanctions, e.g. - they never work.
'Stolen' from legal gunowners. One thing you do when you own is possibly provide one for a criminal.

Guns kill people when they are in the hands of children. Not gang member type children, but your five-year-old that has no idea what it does. Then it isn't the person, it's the presence of the gun. Unless you want to say that if your five-year-old kills his mother, it's reallly the father who bought the gun that's the murderer.
curious is offline  
Old June 20th, 2009, 06:06 AM   #9
Congressional Leader
 
DodgeFB's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Undisclosed
Posts: 2,751

Quote:
Originally Posted by curious View Post
'Stolen' from legal gunowners. One thing you do when you own is possibly provide one for a criminal.

Guns kill people when they are in the hands of children. Not gang member type children, but your five-year-old that has no idea what it does. Then it isn't the person, it's the presence of the gun. Unless you want to say that if your five-year-old kills his mother, it's reallly the father who bought the gun that's the murderer.
There has never been a day in my life there was not at least 3 guns in my house. Guns were never locked up so they were useless. I was taught never to touch a gun unless I was shooting with an adult. Guns were just there like many other things in the house that I left alone. My two daughters never bothered my guns. They showed no interest in them at all. But when you make a big deal about guns children will take notice. Oh it is a GUN!!!!:eek: But I was taught "respect". I don't see a lot of that in children today. I respected my "elders". I respected other people's property. So maybe we do need to just get rid of anything dangerous. Guns, knives, matches or anything sharp. I have heard of people having to hide their car keys from a child. Who is in charge anyway?
DodgeFB is offline  
Old June 21st, 2009, 03:35 AM   #10
Representative
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Florida, USA
Posts: 422

I was absolutely forbidden to go into one of the hollows near our house. Of course, my friends and I went there a couple of times a week every summer. When we were grown, my best friend and I and our mothers were having lunch. My friend and I started telling a story about something silly that we did while playing down there. Our mothers were stunned. They had been sure we had never gone down there, and had never really been intersted.

And there are lots of statistics about children and guns.
curious is offline  
Old June 21st, 2009, 05:44 AM   #11
Congressional Leader
 
DodgeFB's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Undisclosed
Posts: 2,751

Quote:
Originally Posted by curious View Post
I was absolutely forbidden to go into one of the hollows near our house. Of course, my friends and I went there a couple of times a week every summer. When we were grown, my best friend and I and our mothers were having lunch. My friend and I started telling a story about something silly that we did while playing down there. Our mothers were stunned. They had been sure we had never gone down there, and had never really been intersted.

And there are lots of statistics about children and guns.
And there are lots of so called statistics about people that just let their children grow up like weeds. You should never have anything dangerous in a home with disrespectful children that are raising themselves. But they will get their own gun in time.
DodgeFB is offline  
Old June 21st, 2009, 10:36 AM   #12
Founding Father
 
Joined: Jan 2013
From: Maryland
Posts: 316

Quote:
Originally Posted by curious View Post
'Stolen' from legal gunowners. One thing you do when you own is possibly provide one for a criminal.
Most stolen guns are actually bought overseas, smuggled or from the black market. I don't think many criminals would be dumb enough to steal a gun from a gunowner. A gun is no different than a knife, car or any other tool capable of doing harm. They don't do anything on their own.

Quote:
Guns kill people when they are in the hands of children. Not gang member type children, but your five-year-old that has no idea what it does. Then it isn't the person, it's the presence of the gun. Unless you want to say that if your five-year-old kills his mother, it's reallly the father who bought the gun that's the murderer.
It's absolutely the fault of the parents. First of all, if I had kids, I would make damn sure they understood its no toy.

Second of all, it's the owners responsibility to keep the gun in a secure and childproof location. Or keep it unloaded and safe.

The police would seem to agree as well. When we have these accidental shootings with children - guess who gets the blame? The owners nearly always get arrested and charged with neglect.
omej is offline  
Old June 22nd, 2009, 03:35 AM   #13
Representative
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Florida, USA
Posts: 422

Keeping a gun in a secure and childproof location means that it won't be available if needed for protection. So why have one?

Isn't the argument that 'guns don't kill, people do' an argument for gun control? The laws aren't really against gun, but against their ownership by people. After all, we can't punish or control the guns. We talk about 'illegal drugs', but they aren't illegal in and of themselves. We just regulate who uses them.

And gun theft is one of the ways that guns become illegal.

There is a big difference between a knife and a gun, since a gun is deadly from a distance. One can kill without being close enough to put oneself in danger. That's a big difference.
curious is offline  
Old June 22nd, 2009, 07:30 AM   #14
Congressional Leader
 
DodgeFB's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Undisclosed
Posts: 2,751

Quote:
Originally Posted by curious View Post
Keeping a gun in a secure and childproof location means that it won't be available if needed for protection. So why have one?

Isn't the argument that 'guns don't kill, people do' an argument for gun control? The laws aren't really against gun, but against their ownership by people. After all, we can't punish or control the guns. We talk about 'illegal drugs', but they aren't illegal in and of themselves. We just regulate who uses them.

And gun theft is one of the ways that guns become illegal.

There is a big difference between a knife and a gun, since a gun is deadly from a distance. One can kill without being close enough to put oneself in danger. That's a big difference.
I have been shot and I have been cut. I would rather be shot.
DodgeFB is offline  
Old June 22nd, 2009, 11:22 PM   #15
Representative
 
GekiDan's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Philippines
Posts: 416

Honestly, gun ban doesn't really work.
In the previous elections that we have, there's always violence that are gun related.
From my point of view, they only implement this to get more punishment for those who breaks the law.
GekiDan is offline  
Old June 23rd, 2009, 05:35 AM   #16
Secretary of State
 
deanhills's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,187

Quote:
Originally Posted by GekiDan View Post
Honestly, gun ban doesn't really work.
In the previous elections that we have, there's always violence that are gun related.
From my point of view, they only implement this to get more punishment for those who breaks the law.
Agreed. They need to go to the root cause. Sometimes it is like religion, guns (as part of violence) becomes like a template of a given society and perpetuates itself from generation to generation.
deanhills is offline  
Old June 25th, 2009, 01:25 AM   #17
Representative
 
GekiDan's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Philippines
Posts: 416

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanhills View Post
Agreed. They need to go to the root cause. Sometimes it is like religion, guns (as part of violence) becomes like a template of a given society and perpetuates itself from generation to generation.
Well... I can say gun is a part of ones life...
There's even a news here that a soldier was accidentally shot by his 6 year old son when he was teaching him how to hold an use a gun. Unluckily, the father died... T_T
GekiDan is offline  
Old June 25th, 2009, 09:56 PM   #18
Representative
 
Delta's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 369

Quote:
Originally Posted by GekiDan View Post
Honestly, gun ban doesn't really work.
I think the Japanese would disagree.

Last edited by Delta; June 25th, 2009 at 09:58 PM.
Delta is offline  
Old June 26th, 2009, 06:22 PM   #19
Congressional Leader
 
DodgeFB's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Undisclosed
Posts: 2,751

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta View Post
I think the Japanese would disagree.
But they would be wrong. Taking guns from US citizens would be like taking all that ceremonial stuff they love from the people in Japan. Different cultures and all that stuff.
DodgeFB is offline  
Old June 26th, 2009, 09:28 PM   #20
Representative
 
GekiDan's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Philippines
Posts: 416

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta View Post
I think the Japanese would disagree.
Why would you say that?
Any reasons?
GekiDan is offline  
Reply

  Political Fray > The Political Fray > Government and Politics

Tags
banning , guns , work



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can guns protect us against tyranny? myp Government and Politics 53 February 7th, 2013 06:31 PM
Right to work myp Government and Politics 39 January 3rd, 2013 01:18 PM
San Fran to consider banning nudity Hammer Government and Politics 10 November 28th, 2012 12:46 AM
East coast earthquake interrupted the president's work Patrick Government and Politics 4 August 24th, 2011 10:19 AM
First France, now Belgium banning burqas deanhills Current Events 19 May 17th, 2010 10:57 AM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2009-2013 Political Fray. All rights reserved.