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Old December 4th, 2009, 12:49 PM   #1
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Americans Shut Up!

Hello,

This is the craziest thing ever.

The AMERICAN HEALTH CARE DEBATE IS A CIRCUS..

Some americans call me a canadian, "socialism".

But how do they come to that?

BECAUSE I GET FREE HEALTH CARE...???

Wow... So because I get FREE care, and you pay $$$$.. I am the one with the issue..

You tell me...

Bozonessinc
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Old December 4th, 2009, 01:10 PM   #2
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I think you are really generalizing here- all Americans would not call you such. Personally, I believe your system is partly socialist, but that does not mean you are. Also, you do not get free health care- you pay for it too, just through taxes and inflation.
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Old December 6th, 2009, 01:21 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myp View Post
I think you are really generalizing here- all Americans would not call you such. Personally, I believe your system is partly socialist, but that does not mean you are. Also, you do not get free health care- you pay for it too, just through taxes and inflation.
So then wouldn't any system that collects taxes to better people overall be partly socialist? To me it would seem that our paying a portion of our taxes to cover everyone's healthcare would be the same as Americans paying a portion of their taxes to fund the military - every American can benefit from having a strong military (well, maybe... but even if you don't agree with that I think you get what I'm trying to get at). The same could be said for infrastructure, etc.
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Old December 6th, 2009, 01:24 PM   #4
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Quote:
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So then wouldn't any system that collects taxes to better people overall be partly socialist? To me it would seem that our paying a portion of our taxes to cover everyone's healthcare would be the same as Americans paying a portion of their taxes to fund the military - every American can benefit from having a strong military (well, maybe... but even if you don't agree with that I think you get what I'm trying to get at). The same could be said for infrastructure, etc.
I think I see your point. It all comes down to if anything happens someone has to pay for it somewhere. Then comes, what are we willing to pay for? I don't really know anymore.
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Old December 6th, 2009, 02:43 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Delta View Post
So then wouldn't any system that collects taxes to better people overall be partly socialist? To me it would seem that our paying a portion of our taxes to cover everyone's healthcare would be the same as Americans paying a portion of their taxes to fund the military - every American can benefit from having a strong military (well, maybe... but even if you don't agree with that I think you get what I'm trying to get at). The same could be said for infrastructure, etc.
Oh course it means that. I admit the army runs under a form of socialism and it is probably the only form of socialism I support at the Federal level.

By the way, nice to see you back Delta
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Old December 9th, 2009, 02:43 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myp View Post
I think you are really generalizing here- all Americans would not call you such. Personally, I believe your system is partly socialist, but that does not mean you are. Also, you do not get free health care- you pay for it too, just through taxes and inflation.
Not only that, Canadians make personal contributions on a monthly basis to their Medical Insurance. Dental care is excluded, Canadians have to pay for their own dental care, unless you want to take out insurance for that too, or it can be provided through your employer, but that would also come at a price. There is a total misconception in the United States for obvious political reasons. Worst part is that one has to get prescriptions for about any medication you can think off, that means you have to see a doctor etc. etc. I think if you balance the two you will come out equal.

Last edited by deanhills; December 9th, 2009 at 02:45 AM.
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Old December 12th, 2009, 12:27 PM   #7
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I wouldn't call it socialist. We're in a minority government right now so the Conservative Party has to have support from other parties to pass a bill. Personally, I definitely believe that Americans would really benefit from having basic free health care for everyone. I like how Obama's getting away from making policies which will make the rich richer and the poor poorer. With basic health care, then the less fortunate have one less thing to worry about, and they in turn could prosper, therefore, having more taxpayers.
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Old December 12th, 2009, 01:31 PM   #8
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If the US got a so-called "Canadian Style" system (an Australian system is better, though not my ideal), the Government would be supported in its decision by the auto industry, which is losing a lot of money due to the current US system.

But i doubt it will happen any time soon.
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Old December 12th, 2009, 04:55 PM   #9
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I found it funny that Stephen Harper called an election in June/July of '08 and the election finished at least 2-3 months earlier than the American one.
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Old December 13th, 2009, 06:20 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by el canadiano View Post
I found it funny that Stephen Harper called an election in June/July of '08 and the election finished at least 2-3 months earlier than the American one.
In the US, it matters less who is in power. So they have to make more of a fuss.

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Old December 19th, 2009, 11:23 PM   #11
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In the US, it matters less who is in power. So they have to make more of a fuss.

Actually it's because we have a set date.
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Old December 21st, 2009, 05:42 AM   #12
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Personally, I definitely believe that Americans would really benefit from having basic free health care for everyone.
I believe everyone is in agreement with that, it's just the modus operandi that is the problem. People cannot find a solution that makes everyone happy, and the one that will make everyone happy is one where there won't be lots of taxes and extra cost involved. So Obama is using a stage show to make people believe that his proposal will actually save people money.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 11:38 AM   #13
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Actually it's because we have a set date.
Damn, i've been owned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanhills View Post
Obama is using a stage show to make people believe that his proposal will actually save people money.
Hehe. It won't. Funnily enough, a national health service probably would. But he's not pushing that - gotta keep the insurance corporations happy, eh?
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Old December 27th, 2009, 02:42 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozonessinc View Post
Hello,

This is the craziest thing ever.

The AMERICAN HEALTH CARE DEBATE IS A CIRCUS..

Some americans call me a canadian, "socialism".

But how do they come to that?

BECAUSE I GET FREE HEALTH CARE...???

Wow... So because I get FREE care, and you pay $$$$.. I am the one with the issue..

You tell me...

Bozonessinc
Americans are the ones with the problem because they can't sort out free health care for citizens, however, Canada and UK, and I don't know about other countries, can - so that makes us more superior in the Health Care system!
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Old December 27th, 2009, 05:01 AM   #15
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Americans are the ones with the problem because they can't sort out free health care for citizens, however, Canada and UK, and I don't know about other countries, can - so that makes us more superior in the Health Care system!
It is not free when "someone" has to pay for it. I think the people who use it should pay for. Some people think "someone else" should pay for it. Same could be said for houses,cars, or even planes. If I need need it give it to me and make you pay for it.
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Old December 27th, 2009, 10:06 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nearly View Post
Americans are the ones with the problem because they can't sort out free health care for citizens, however, Canada and UK, and I don't know about other countries, can - so that makes us more superior in the Health Care system!
Is there a correlation between universal health care and a "superior" system? The UK and Canada both have flaws in their system- among them slower innovation and problems with sustainability (especially financially) over the long run. The United States is currently the world's leader in health care innovation and with less regulations and more competition prices would also be lower here. With shorter wait times and a more efficient and effective system, I think a free market system would clearly pull through as "superior" should the politicians give it a chance.
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Old December 27th, 2009, 10:10 AM   #17
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I don't know about other countries
This isn't patriotism speaking, but the German system is the most effective.



Although my own ideal - an LHS - would blow 'em all out of the water. In my opinion only, of course.

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Old January 2nd, 2010, 12:28 PM   #18
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I think it is necesary to think about what society do you want? What keeps it healthy and functional? Health care is vital to the economy, not only the cost of it, but the need for a healthy society so that families are strong and function, business are strong because employees can function. If the market works well then this shows up in competitive prices, good health care. America has expensive health care and lower health results than other developed countries. something is wrong and the market is not working right. Therefore it has to be corrected. Is the health market correcting itself, not in the past 50 years. Then someone has to ensure that it does correct itself, hence government intervention.To do what, make sure it is affordable, available for all, and of quality. How do you do it - introduce competition - public option, remove the exemption from anti-trust requirements, stop discrimination against certain groups; stop dropping coverage for pre-exisiting conditions or emergent conditions; control costs. Based on that what has Obama done, some, not all. What about costs, controlling spiralling profits while reducing coverage, makes costs worse. Find abuses, find duplications, find efficiencies, then true costs are obvious, then as a country decide what you can and cannot afford. Your status quo does not make intelligent sense

Last edited by WRIGHT; January 2nd, 2010 at 12:32 PM.
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 10:40 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nearly View Post
Americans are the ones with the problem because they can't sort out free health care for citizens, however, Canada and UK, and I don't know about other countries, can - so that makes us more superior in the Health Care system!
For a "runny nose" maybe Canada and the UK are ahead, but for a serious disease that cannot be catered for in Canada and the UK because of lack of funds, all of those guys seem to be visiting the US. So in my eyes, the US are winning! For how long however is an open question. My only hope is that most of the medical services in the US are privately owned. Capitalism is very much entrenched in the medical services, for now anyways.
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 12:00 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by deanhills View Post
For a "runny nose" maybe Canada and the UK are ahead, but for a serious disease that cannot be catered for in Canada and the UK because of lack of funds, all of those guys seem to be visiting the US. So in my eyes, the US are winning!
I don't believe there isn't a serious disease not dealt with in the UK? I have no information on Canada.

One thing, whatever you think of it, philosophically (for a lot of it not much in my case), Cuba has an amazing healthcare system. In that it provides for everyone, is at the head of new medicines, and great technologies like biotechnology. They actually pay for a lot of it through trips to other countries to provide high quality healthcare - the countries, in return, to economic or political favours to Cuba.

Quote:
For how long however is an open question. My only hope is that most of the medical services in the US are privately owned. Capitalism is very much entrenched in the medical services, for now anyways.
You think businesses should own healthcare?

I believe in a non-state LHS.
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