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Old January 16th, 2010, 10:08 AM   #1
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Is History Fake?

[COLOR=Purple]Does anyone ever wonder if the history we learn is fake? Now, I'm not doubting any of the bit picture- you know, obviously people came to the America's, "discovered' and then proceeded to commit genocide (am I exaggerating here?) against the native's.

I just mean do you think that any of it could be altered, or maybe not even ever happened? I've always felt like that since as far back as I remember. I never accepted anything people told me, in regards to history or science- I always wanted to see for myself and think for myself.

I know some people think the holocaust never happened and that isn't what I mean. Just want to clarify, I'm pretty sure that since it wasn't so long ago, we have video evidence, SURVIVORS as evidence and basically our grandparents lived through WWII etc.. So I don't want to offend anyone and have them think that's what I am implying, because it's not.

I'm just referring to way back history, stuff that we don't have much evidence of, just stories passed down for generations, maybe an artifact here or there etc.


And does anyone think that some parts of history became legend and myth but could have actually been real- Atlantis, Roman Gods, etc.
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Old January 16th, 2010, 10:20 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingStar View Post
[COLOR=Purple]Does anyone ever wonder if the history we learn is fake? Now, I'm not doubting any of the bit picture- you know, obviously people came to the America's, "discovered' and then proceeded to commit genocide (am I exaggerating here?) against the native's.

I just mean do you think that any of it could be altered, or maybe not even ever happened? I've always felt like that since as far back as I remember. I never accepted anything people told me, in regards to history or science- I always wanted to see for myself and think for myself.

I know some people think the holocaust never happened and that isn't what I mean. Just want to clarify, I'm pretty sure that since it wasn't so long ago, we have video evidence, SURVIVORS as evidence and basically our grandparents lived through WWII etc.. So I don't want to offend anyone and have them think that's what I am implying, because it's not.

I'm just referring to way back history, stuff that we don't have much evidence of, just stories passed down for generations, maybe an artifact here or there etc.


And does anyone think that some parts of history became legend and myth but could have actually been real- Atlantis, Roman Gods, etc.
I have no doubt that many parts of "history" have been stretched or spun to "improve" the tale. Even recent history sometimes seems unbelievable after the "spin-doctors" work it for a day or so.
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Old January 16th, 2010, 10:51 AM   #3
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Well I think that the 300 was real, and that it was some other guy who discovered electricity :P
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Old January 16th, 2010, 10:55 AM   #4
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Well I think that the 300 was real, and that it was some other guy who discovered electricity :P
Just so you know, I am not the one who discovered electricity!
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Old January 16th, 2010, 11:52 AM   #5
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Most history is opinion. As such it is dependent on the perspective of those who collectively create it. Some is merely descriptive of an event: "The Titanic sank," so presumably is largely accurate. However historians are taught to create arguments, meaning an interpretation along with a narrative: "The Titanic sank because ...." There is always room for debate because others may disagree.

Another example is the assassination of JFK. If you write that, "JFK was assassinated," there is little room for debate. If you write that, "JFK was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald," many people think that Oswald could have but there is a reasonable doubt. If you write that "JFK was assassinated by a lone assassin," you are at the heart of one of the major issues of the 20th Century: was the United States government taken over by a coupe in 1963? Much of the world will say yes. Some Americans will deny it out of their own perceptions. Many others will deny it out of nothing more substantive than pride.

Interpret this one from Genesis Chapter 6 in the Bible:

4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
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Old January 16th, 2010, 11:55 AM   #6
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oooh interesting passage. But I don't understand the difference between the sons of God and the daughters of men (doesn't the bible say we are all children of God?).

I like the points you make though about it being up to perception, that is so true. Maybe one reason why I've always taken everything with a grain of salt. They say that 10 witnesses at the same crime will report 10 different accounts of what happened-
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Old January 16th, 2010, 01:13 PM   #7
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oooh interesting passage. ... (doesn't the bible say we are all children of God?).
Indeed. That is a logical interpretation. However logic can change depending on what factors are inserted. Who are the giants in Genesis 6? Nothing there says that they are not also children of God. If you remember the book "Chariots of the Gods" do you suppose that perhaps it raises interesting theories?
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Old January 16th, 2010, 01:19 PM   #8
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[COLOR=Purple]No, I don't remember that book. I also haven't studied the bible since I was a child. I don't necessarily look at it as being fake, I just didn't enjoy the wording of it.

I did pick up on the mention of giants, and I really do think that giants existed (but so did unicorns!). I'm not one that gets deep or philosophical over things like this, I mostly feel entertained.

Imagine that, someone's religion is entertaining to me..
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Old January 16th, 2010, 07:23 PM   #9
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I wasn't able to complete Chariots of the Gods either, although its premise and many of its assertions are fascinating. It just kinda lost my interest.

Personally I think that the Bible contains the whole truth for us to understand about ourselves, but none of us ever truly get it. Nor can we. Not even the hyper-religious. They get deeper into the semantics and philosophies but often suffer on the personal level from a lack of different kinds of relationships. One life can only accomplish so much in the time allotted (I know, a horrible generalization).

Here's an example. Scripture says in both the Old Testament and New that everything boils down to two rules: love god with all your heart and love your neighbour as yourself. If you want to reduce that to one principle, it is love. Then look at our success in love. For most of us our biggest single challenge is to love and stay with just one other person forever. Our spouses. What is our success rate, both in getting along and in staying?
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Old January 16th, 2010, 07:45 PM   #10
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Actually my personal philosophy in life is 'love'. And yes, I do struggle with some of my relationships!
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Old January 16th, 2010, 07:58 PM   #11
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The topic seems to have strayed from false history. It kind of reminds me of the line in the movie "Anna and the King of Siam" where the king says, "Lies. FALSE lies." My apologies to the thread.
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Old January 16th, 2010, 08:59 PM   #12
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Hey I don't care, not like anyone was saying much about history anyway. I'm laid back about things like that.. I don't care if my threads get hijacked.
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Old January 16th, 2010, 09:57 PM   #13
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Well ya, history is fake. The Vikings were the 1st Europeans to America, not Columbus. 'Honest Abe' wasn't a slave lover, he wanted to deport all the blacks. Alaska didn't chose to join the USA, the troops garrisoning the territory did.

The list goes on and on and that's just in regards to America.
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Old January 16th, 2010, 10:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Hey I don't care, not like anyone was saying much about history anyway. I'm laid back about things like that.. I don't care if my threads get hijacked.
Your thread wasn't exactly hijacked, as the discussion just progressed in that way and you were also a part of it. Threads tend to naturally get off topic at times, but I have found that they usually find their way back on-topic too. If we are way off-topic, then I will step in and remind everyone, but I don't like to over-moderate.

That being said, if any thread starter (or any poster for that matter) feels that a thread needs a bump in the right direction, feel free to drop me a PM and I will take action if I deem necessary. Also, if anyone is purposefully or constantly taking topics off thread, I may have to take disciplinary action- first time likely just a warning though.

Oh, and David, thanks for bringing us back on topic
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Old January 16th, 2010, 10:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Your thread wasn't exactly hijacked, as the discussion just progressed in that way and you were also a part of it. Threads tend to naturally get off topic at times, but I have found that they usually find their way back on-topic too. If we are way off-topic, then I will step in and remind everyone, but I don't like to over-moderate.

That being said, if any thread starter (or any poster for that matter) feels that a thread needs a bump in the right direction, feel free to drop me a PM and I will take action if I deem necessary. Also, if anyone is purposefully or constantly taking topics off thread, I may have to take disciplinary action- first time likely just a warning though.

Oh, and David, thanks for bringing us back on topic
No problem. Seemed like a good topic, didn't want it going off into something else like the gay marriage thread did (how did we start debating socialism? ).
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Old January 16th, 2010, 10:21 PM   #16
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I was being serious about not caring lol. I really didn't care (well I did want to discuss the fake history) but I also didn't feel that I would throw a fit if that didn't happen. I know it wasn't hijacked, I was just using that term as it seemed most appropriate.

Well I'd like to hear more David about the facts you listed. I can't argue the validity because I wasn't alive back then
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Old January 16th, 2010, 10:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingStar View Post
I was being serious about not caring lol. I really didn't care (well I did want to discuss the fake history) but I also didn't feel that I would throw a fit if that didn't happen. I know it wasn't hijacked, I was just using that term as it seemed most appropriate.

Well I'd like to hear more David about the facts you listed. I can't argue the validity because I wasn't alive back then
Records (and ruins) exist to prove my 1st point, Abe's own speeches about slaves and the need to conquer Africa prove my 2nd and the records of the statehood vote clearly show most natives voting no and the military (who despite not being Alaskans were allowed to vote) voting yes.
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Old January 16th, 2010, 10:59 PM   #18
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Oh I just wanted to hear details, DETAILS people! I'll look it up on my own time then, I find it fascinating.
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Old January 17th, 2010, 07:14 AM   #19
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I don't know so much about fake. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head. But i do know that certain things are left out/never mentioned. I remember many things happening that, you know, people around then would remember - but people nowadays just have no idea about.

I'm pretty sure it's deliberate, too. I remember in 2001, when GWB declared "war on terrorism". Absoutely nobody mentioned Reagan's declaration of "war on terrorism" in '81, well as it was the first thing i thought of.
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Old January 17th, 2010, 09:17 AM   #20
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History in text books is one of the worst sources of events to possibly learn from. All text books will present some sort of slant to them. The only real way to learn history is to live it, remember it for what it was and try to tell others, but then again it will be how you remembered it, and not how it actually was.
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