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Old June 26th, 2013, 09:14 AM   #1
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Fearsome Fatwa

Muslims don't keep dogs, and their saliva is regarded as unclean, so they are not allowed in mosques. A blind Muslim boy was recently given a guide dog here, and a fatwa was issued by the local scholars allowing it in.

Bet you expected something else!
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Old June 26th, 2013, 10:47 AM   #2
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I sometimes don't get these prohibitions. The Quran doesn't just call stuff unclean, it actually explains most of it's bans and allowances. So sure don't bring in strays or let junkyard dogs inside but a house dog? When is the last time you've seen a house dog with so much as yellow teeth?! If they aged at the same rate as humans, a well cared for house dog would outlive us all! The reasons for the ban don't even apply to them. Same for a modern pig and farmed, cooked shellfish. If the reason for the ban is invalid, logic dictates the ban itself is also invalid.

I suspect the scholars that issued this fatwa have come to a similar conclusion.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 06:49 AM   #3
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Most religious texts are based on hundreds, if not thousands, of year old knowledge garnered in very primitive times. The Christian Bible still contains prohibitions against eating pork and shellfish plus says adulterers should be put to death. How many Christians abide by those rules plus all the others listed?

Leviticus 20:10
And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Deuteronomy 14:8
And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.
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Old June 28th, 2013, 07:00 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Road Warrior View Post
Most religious texts are based on hundreds, if not thousands, of year old knowledge garnered in very primitive times. The Christian Bible still contains prohibitions against eating pork and shellfish plus says adulterers should be put to death. How many Christians abide by those rules plus all the others listed?

Leviticus 20:10
And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Deuteronomy 14:8
And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.
Interesting question whether Christians are bound by Jewish Law. I think the majority opinion is heavily against. The point about that Law, though, is that it is constantly being re-interpreted by scholars, as is the Islamic rule in this fatwa (it's more important that blind boy attends Mosque than that dog be excluded). Some of the interesting slither is what delights me about Judaism, like the way the absolute rule against cursing anyone is got round ('That he should fall into a cess-pool and die, God forbid!). How could anyone HATE such a people?
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Old June 28th, 2013, 05:44 PM   #5
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Interesting question whether Christians are bound by Jewish Law.
Yes, they are. Otherwise so many wouldn't want the Ten Commandments carved in stone on courthouse steps or recite Leviticus when opposing gays.

Lest we forget, Jesus was Jewish. Christians are simply those who believe Jesus was the foretold Jewish Messiah.

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Old June 29th, 2013, 05:03 AM   #6
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Yes, they are. Otherwise so many wouldn't want the Ten Commandments carved in stone on courthouse steps or recite Leviticus when opposing gays.

Lest we forget, Jesus was Jewish. Christians are simply those who believe Jesus was the foretold Jewish Messiah.

There is a great deal more to the Jewish Law than the Ten Commandments, though, and we don't even keep them . When did you last keep Saturday holy, for instance?
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Old June 29th, 2013, 05:47 AM   #7
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There is a great deal more to the Jewish Law than the Ten Commandments, though, and we don't even keep them . When did you last keep Saturday holy, for instance?
For some reason christians think the Sabbath is on Sunday.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 12:28 PM   #8
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For some reason christians think the Sabbath is on Sunday.
But not because it is in the Ten Commandments, certainly.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 05:12 PM   #9
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There is a great deal more to the Jewish Law than the Ten Commandments, though, and we don't even keep them . When did you last keep Saturday holy, for instance?
Keeping a Holy Day, a Sabbath, is still the tradition. Which day it is is irrelevant, but there is some history to show how it changed. Nonetheless, Christians are still Messianic Jews. OTOH, since there are over 30,000 denominations of Christianity, some nuttier than the others, I have little doubt some of them would agree with me.

Why do some Christians observe the Sabbath on Sunday? | Bibleinfo.com
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The Christians during the apostolic era (basically the first century, from about 35 to 100 A.D.) kept Sabbath on the seventh day of the week, more or less what we now call Saturday. (More or less" because the Bible Sabbath begins and ends at sundown whereas Saturday begins and ends at midnight). For the first 300 years of Christian history, the Christian religion was an illegal religion, but Judaism was a legal religion. During the apostolic era, Christians found it convenient to let the Roman authorities think of them as Jews. Sabbath observance is quite visible. Thus, during those early years of Christianity observance of Sabbath helped the Christians to be identified with Judaism, which gained them legitimacy with the Roman government. However, the Jews rebelled against Rome, and the Romans put down their rebellion by destroying Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and again in 135 A.D. Obviously, the Roman government's suppression of the Jews made it increasingly uncomfortable for Christians to be thought of as Jews. So instead of trying to be thought of as Jews, some Christians in the early second century tried to distance themselves from Judaism, and observing a different day was one easy way to do that. And that was a very convenient way to do it. Many pagans observed the first day of the week in honor of their sun god. By switching to observing the Sabbath on the first day of the week the Christians accomplished two things: They distanced themselves from Judaism, and they made it easier for pagans to become Christians. Of course, their observance of the Sabbath on Sunday was without biblical support. They just did it. This is not to say that all Christians suddenly started keeping the first day of the week. The movement toward keeping Sunday began quite small.

The earliest positive evidence for a Christian worship service on Sunday is sometime between about 115 and 135 A.D., probably in Rome. We also know that the church in Rome was particularly active in promoting Sunday observance. For several centuries, some Christians kept Sabbath on Saturday and some kept it on Sunday. By the 500s, Sunday observance was pretty universal.
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 04:39 AM   #10
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Keeping a Holy Day, a Sabbath, is still the tradition. Which day it is is irrelevant, but there is some history to show how it changed. Nonetheless, Christians are still Messianic Jews. OTOH, since there are over 30,000 denominations of Christianity, some nuttier than the others, I have little doubt some of them would agree with me.

Why do some Christians observe the Sabbath on Sunday? | Bibleinfo.com
I know perfectly well why Christians keep Sunday - I just note that they don't keep the Sabbath Day, the seventh. We also do not follow the various dietary restrictions and so on. If Christianity were just an extension of Judaism not many people would have joined it, I think.
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 06:49 AM   #11
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I know perfectly well why Christians keep Sunday - I just note that they don't keep the Sabbath Day, the seventh. We also do not follow the various dietary restrictions and so on. If Christianity were just an extension of Judaism not many people would have joined it, I think.
The ignored a lot of stuff to placate the Romans. I do see Christians slowly moving away from organized religion back to decentralized, more Jewish Christianity.
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Old July 2nd, 2013, 07:04 AM   #12
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The ignored a lot of stuff to placate the Romans. I do see Christians slowly moving away from organized religion back to decentralized, more Jewish Christianity.
I see it the other way - as moving away from religion and into open, loving behaviour. And, yes, I think it was a sort of mix of the best of Judaism and Roman universalism. It is still there potentially, and if we can get the best of Buddhism in there with it we'll be on the way.
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 02:44 PM   #13
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I know perfectly well why Christians keep Sunday - I just note that they don't keep the Sabbath Day, the seventh. We also do not follow the various dietary restrictions and so on. If Christianity were just an extension of Judaism not many people would have joined it, I think.
Some Christian sects are stricter than others. Some, like Mormons, don't consume alcohol, caffeine and observe other dietary restrictions.

Baptists were often among the strictest in the US, but like the Dylan song, the times they are a-changin'.

There's an old joke; Why do Baptists make love laying down? Because, if seen, they don't want anyone to think they are dancing.

Look at the history of Puritans in the US for how strict Christians used to be.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 05:17 AM   #14
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Some Christian sects are stricter than others. Some, like Mormons, don't consume alcohol, caffeine and observe other dietary restrictions.

Baptists were often among the strictest in the US, but like the Dylan song, the times they are a-changin'.

There's an old joke; Why do Baptists make love laying down? Because, if seen, they don't want anyone to think they are dancing.

Look at the history of Puritans in the US for how strict Christians used to be.
I don't say it wasn't strict - you should have met my Cardiganshire aunts - merely that it wasn't the same as Judaism. Like the Baptist story; here the story is that there is one bit of Heaven where you have to be totally silent - it is reserved for Baptists and they will be so terribly unhappy if they know anyone else is there!
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