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Old February 18th, 2018, 04:21 PM   #21
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Eyewitness testimony is important, but because it is unreliable, it should be backed up by other evidence. I have not mentioned the many reports about explosions at the World Trade Center because it has always seemed to me to be possible that people heard partial collapses or other sounds associated with the tragedy and mistook them for explosions---although the number of such reports and their consistency tend to make me give credence to them.

As for the Pentagon, all that would be needed to settle many questions is for the government to release the videos of the incident which they confiscated immediately after the explosion. They have chosen not to do so.

The supposed wreckage of Flight 77 is notoriously slight in quantity, and there is still enormous controversy concerning what it is and what it means. Because I am not an expert on such matters, I have not mentioned it.

If only other people were as chaste and modest as I am in expressing their opinions!
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Was there supposed to be some proof buried in all of that?
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Old February 20th, 2018, 04:47 AM   #22
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I love conspiracy theory - some of the whacky things they come up with are just short of brilliant. The best 9/11 one is the controlled demolition of that building in New York behind the twin towers....can't remember which one but the vigour they employ to try and prove that theory is quite amazing. You have to admire the people that think these things up!

Anyway sorry to interupt.....do continue...
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Old February 20th, 2018, 05:15 AM   #23
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Was there supposed to be some proof buried in all of that?
He wishes!
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Old February 20th, 2018, 07:18 AM   #24
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Was there supposed to be some proof buried in all of that?
Isn't that the thing about conspiracy theory it isn't based on reality or fact but a version of it, therefore, the proof would have to accept the premise of the flawed theory and argue backwards.... its' the orginial tail wagging the dog scenario. The debunking of a conspiracy would thus be a perpetuation of the conspiracy from which no proof can be justified or accepted...QED a conspiracy.
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Old February 20th, 2018, 08:56 AM   #25
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Isn't that the thing about conspiracy theory it isn't based on reality or fact but a version of it, therefore, the proof would have to accept the premise of the flawed theory and argue backwards.... its' the orginial tail wagging the dog scenario. The debunking of a conspiracy would thus be a perpetuation of the conspiracy from which no proof can be justified or accepted...QED a conspiracy.
http://politicalfray.com/newreply.ph...streply&t=7683
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Old February 20th, 2018, 11:26 AM   #26
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whats this supposed to be?
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Old February 20th, 2018, 12:40 PM   #27
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Mirabile visu!

Rational thought apparently can still exist in the Wall Street Journal!

Does this mean that there is still hope for America? [...probably not]

The Anthrax Attacks Remain Unsolved

Quote:
...since weaponization was banned by international treaties, research anthrax no longer contains silicon, and the flask at Fort Detrick contained none.

Yet the anthrax grown from it had silicon, according to the U.S. Armed Forces Institute of Pathology. This silicon explained why, when the letters to Sens. Leahy and Daschle were opened, the anthrax vaporized into an aerosol. If so, then somehow silicon was added to the anthrax. But Ivins, no matter how weird he may have been, had neither the set of skills nor the means to attach silicon to anthrax spores.

At a minimum, such a process would require highly specialized equipment that did not exist in Ivins's lab—or, for that matter, anywhere at the Fort Detrick facility. As Richard Spertzel, a former biodefense scientist who worked with Ivins, explained in a private briefing on Jan. 7, 2009, the lab didn't even deal with anthrax in powdered form, adding, "I don't think there's anyone there who would have the foggiest idea how to do it."
In the modern world, Niagaras of brainwashing are continually eroding and washing away previous memories, so there are few people who really remember the Anthrax Attacks that "coincidentally" followed hard on the heels of 9/11, and had so much to do with terrifying people and stampeding them to pass the "Patriot Act"---and committing so many other follies.
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Old February 20th, 2018, 12:46 PM   #28
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Mirabile visu!

Rational thought apparently can still exist in the Wall Street Journal!

Does this mean that there is still hope for America? [...probably not]

The Anthrax Attacks Remain Unsolved



In the modern world, Niagaras of brainwashing are continually eroding and washing away previous memories, so there are few people who really remember the Anthrax Attacks that "coincidentally" followed hard on the heels of 9/11, and had so much to do with terrifying people and stampeding them to pass the "Patriot Act"---and committing so many other follies.
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And the reason you are dwelling on super old news is...?
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Old February 20th, 2018, 01:58 PM   #29
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People should wrap their heads around the notion that, in the modern world, it is practically impossible for a big conspiracy to be successfully pulled off without elements of government and other centers of power either knowing about it, or in fact being the instigators of it.

Once you get past "the rocket's red glare, and bomb's bursting in air," and the rest of the patriotic malarkey, the United States' government is just another government, just like all the rest. They all operate the same way.

I remember a well-watched television program in which Henry Kissinger and other Creatures from the Black Lagoon of power politics "confessed" that the moon-landing was a hoax.

What better way to draw a red herring across the trail of real conspiracies than to make them all seem as nutty as denying the moon-landing? Why else would they damage their dignity by taking part in such a farce?

As for the anthrax attack, it strains credulity that "it just happened" that it coincided with stampeding legislators into passing, unread, the "Patriot" Act --- and that it so successfully cowed the media at a critical moment in American history.

It also strains credulity that anyone, nutty or otherwise, would do something so serious and elaborate without a strong motive --- and motive is what is notably lacking in the "explanation" which the FBI has set forth.
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Old February 20th, 2018, 02:19 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by numan View Post
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People should wrap their heads around the notion that, in the modern world, it is practically impossible for a big conspiracy to be successfully pulled off without elements of government and other centers of power either knowing about it, or in fact being the instigators of it.

Once you get past "the rocket's red glare, and bomb's bursting in air," and the rest of the patriotic malarkey, the United States' government is just another government, just like all the rest. They all operate the same way.

I remember a well-watched television program in which Henry Kissinger and other Creatures from the Black Lagoon of power politics "confessed" that the moon-landing was a hoax.

What better way to draw a red herring across the trail of real conspiracies than to make them all seem as nutty as denying the moon-landing? Why else would they damage their dignity by taking part in such a farce?

As for the anthrax attack, it strains credulity that "it just happened" that it coincided with stampeding legislators into passing, unread, the "Patriot" Act --- and that it so successfully cowed the media at a critical moment in American history.

It also strains credulity that anyone, nutty or otherwise, would do something so serious and elaborate without a strong motive --- and motive is what is notably lacking in the "explanation" which the FBI has set forth.
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With all your rhetoric, you have still failed to prove anything.
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Old February 20th, 2018, 03:28 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numan View Post
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People should wrap their heads around the notion that, in the modern world, it is practically impossible for a big conspiracy to be successfully pulled off without elements of government and other centers of power either knowing about it, or in fact being the instigators of it.

Once you get past "the rocket's red glare, and bomb's bursting in air," and the rest of the patriotic malarkey, the United States' government is just another government, just like all the rest. They all operate the same way.

I remember a well-watched television program in which Henry Kissinger and other Creatures from the Black Lagoon of power politics "confessed" that the moon-landing was a hoax.

What better way to draw a red herring across the trail of real conspiracies than to make them all seem as nutty as denying the moon-landing? Why else would they damage their dignity by taking part in such a farce?

As for the anthrax attack, it strains credulity that "it just happened" that it coincided with stampeding legislators into passing, unread, the "Patriot" Act --- and that it so successfully cowed the media at a critical moment in American history.

It also strains credulity that anyone, nutty or otherwise, would do something so serious and elaborate without a strong motive --- and motive is what is notably lacking in the "explanation" which the FBI has set forth.
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In other words - Not possible to pull off - PERIOD!








Last edited by Ralph47; February 20th, 2018 at 03:33 PM.
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Old February 25th, 2018, 01:24 PM   #32
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I feel sure, beyond reasonable doubt, that much hanky-panky was occurring on September 11.

For one thing, if the government really had nothing to hide, they could set all doubts to rest simply by releasing the surveillance camera video tapes. They have obstinately refused to do so, and I have never read a sensible argument that "national security" is the reason.

I have often wondered if the larger plane that pretended to hit the Pentagon simply overflew the building at low altitude and then immediately landed at Reagan Airport, just beyond the Pentagon. Has anyone read any study of that possibility and how it was managed? I suspect that a deep-state missile hit the Pentagon just as the plane over-flew the building. Based on the many studies about the unreliability of eye-witness testimony, that scenario would have confused many of the eye-witnesses.

Certainly, the initial entrance hole and exit holes in the building are more consonant with a missile than with a large plane.

I watched some of the live television feed that day, before it was edited and prettied up. If you ever get a chance, find the footage of Rumsfeld imitating a hero. Some medics are rushing an injured man to an ambulance on a gurney, and there is Rumsfeld, crouching down and running after the gurney, pretending to push it and obviously not aiding the medics one iota. It's so totally phony-baloney!

It's interesting that they even had fake heroics in the script as photo-ops --- clever details which were ruined by Rumsfeld's lack of acting skills.
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Old February 25th, 2018, 01:38 PM   #33
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I know nothing would convince you. But how about the names and short biographies of the sixty four souls on board? You can find many of them listed in findagrave.com. They are easier than normal to find because we know their date of death.
https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news...e-flight77.htm
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Old February 25th, 2018, 02:25 PM   #34
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Well, we can jab and poke and tease one another until the cows come home, but I think the fundamental question boils down to a question of trust.

The believers in the Official Wacko Conspiracy Theory trust their government, and trust Authorities in general, much more than I do.

I don't trust governments, I especially do not trust the USA government or any of its minions and allies. It is an evil government and has lied about so many things.

I have one advantage over the brainwashed Believers here. They are forced to believe a story that is full of holes (whether they admit it or not) -- they are wedded to a Theory.

I don't have a theory (despite so many swindlers trying to shoehorn me into one). I just have questions, and scepticism about Official Explanations which do not seem to make sense, and which I have not seen clearly established beyond doubt (indeed, often very unclearly "established" with a lot of hocus-pocus and hand-waving.

I am willing to change my views, provided clear evidence is given. The "Believers" in the Official Wacko Conspiracy Theory will never change their views, because it goes against their Government Worship and Authority Religion.

There are only a couple of points on which I am really intransigent. One is that the three World Trade Center towers could have fallen so fast without hanky-panky. The Official Story just violates the Law of Conservation of Momentum.

Another is that the hole in the Pentagon could have been caused by the airliner of the Official Theory.

Moreover, there are many, many weird coincidences that I think should make a reasonable person sceptical.

One is the Anthrax Scare that braindead American zombies are so determined to forget. It came along so conveniently for the fanning of hysteria and the hugger-mugger passage of the wicked so-called "Patriot" Act. And the government "explanation" of the Anthrax Attack is a classic of official obfuscation and denial.

How can one believe that the "stand-down" of the Air Force on 9/11 was just "a coincidence"?

Is it really credible that the passport of one of the "supposed hijackers" survived the inferno of the Towers and was immediately found "by chance" amidst the wreckage on the streets?

And the list of "coincidences" just goes on and on.

It is a funny thing about coincidences. If you clip a rose in your garden, and lightning immediately strikes your house -- then that is a coincidence. If, the next time you clip a rose, lightning strikes -- that is a really weird coincidence. If, every time you clip a rose, lightning strikes -- then it would be an act of wisdom to invest in a lightning rod.
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Old February 25th, 2018, 02:38 PM   #35
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Like I said, nothing will convince you. However, I have been a member of findagrave for about fifteen years. I know how it works. I can find nearly all, if not all, of the casualties of the flights on findagrave and can trace many of their genealogy on findagrave for many generations. It is all voluntary and I have found no inconsistencies in either the people creating the memorials or the memorials themselves. The victims have real families and friends. It is just a subtle thing that reinforces my beliefs.
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Old February 25th, 2018, 03:01 PM   #36
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numan is "off" in so very many ways!!! Poor fella.
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Old February 25th, 2018, 03:13 PM   #37
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The Official Conspiracy Theory : The metal plane was vaporized by the heat, but the human bodies were preserved so that they could be identified by their DNA.

The vaporized plane blasted a 16-foot hole in a reinforced wall much stronger than the fragile, light plane -- which sucked the vaporized plane and intact human bodies into the building, and then the vaporized ghost-plane blew a perfectly round hole through another wall much further into the building.

Why would anyone have any questions about such a perfectly reasonable story?
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Old February 25th, 2018, 03:24 PM   #38
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The looniest theory being put out is your conspiracy theory.
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Old February 25th, 2018, 04:03 PM   #39
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The looniest theory being put out is your conspiracy theory.
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Old March 3rd, 2018, 02:55 PM   #40
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I know nothing would convince you. But how about the names and short biographies of the sixty four souls on board?
How is anyone, including you, to either definitively prove or disprove such claims until the government makes a thorough disclosure of the "evidence"? They could settle all questions about the 757 just by releasing the videos which they confiscated with amazing rapidity minutes after the Pentagon explosion. After all these years, they still haven't released them.

Black boxes? A subject of much controversy. Bodies of the flight crew? They have claimed only to have identified DNA, but they have not released the "evidence" to the public! The engines? Much controversy about that, too. "Evidence" again is not permitted to be examined by independent investigators.

Like any sensible person, I do not trust anything that governments claim---not without independent confirmation. Then there are the vast mass of uncritical thinkers who are deeply afraid to consider that their authority figures are lying to them, and become irrationally angry when that authority is questioned in any fundamental way.

The Official Wacko Conspiracy Theory claims that not only the fuselage went through that 16-foot hole, but also the entire bulk of that enormous plane---including those two heavy, very large engines!

Everyone acknowledges how sturdy was the side of the Pentagon where the supposed plane hit: is it not strange, then, that it collapsed 30 minutes after the impact --- for no apparent reason? (That phrase, "for no apparent reason," should achieve official recognition as the leitmotiv for all of 9/11)

If my arguments are faulty, then a fortiori so are yours---since you do not make arguments, only assertions!

The government has consistently destroyed evidence, and refuses to release to the public what evidence remains.

Most of the problems connected with 9/11 must necessarily lack definitive settlement until that happens. For you to say that such-and-such is definitively settled is simply untrue.
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