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Old December 2nd, 2012, 12:59 PM   #1
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is there regularity/law in the nature ?

People often mention about the perfect order of nature which allows us to live. But it did not allow some organisms to survive and living is really hard at some parts of this world due to the climate and natural events. For some people, the nature has no regularity but all life being dragged along in chaos.

Also our nature depends on the space and universe that they also seem to not have an order. There re a lot matter occurred as a result of the big explosion but only one or a few of them allows living today as we know it. There are a lot of thing in the world that hard to define with the adjective of perfect. Don't know If I did express myself truly but hope you understand what I mean. I find this s a confusing topic of the philosophy of nature. Maybe the term of chaos has a systematic order in it but we have difficulty understanding it.

Last edited by reader; December 2nd, 2012 at 01:05 PM.
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Old December 2nd, 2012, 01:10 PM   #2
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People often mention about the perfect order of nature which allows us to live. But it did not allow some organisms to survive and living is really hard at some parts of this world due to the climate and natural events. For some people, the nature has no regularity but all life being dragged along in chaos.

Also our nature depends on the space and universe that they also seem to not have an order. There re a lot matter occurred as a result of the big explosion but only one or a few of them allows living today as we know it. There are a lot of thing in the world that hard to define with the adjective of perfect. Don't know If I did express myself truly but hope you understand what I mean. I find this s a confusing topic of the philosophy of nature. Maybe the term of chaos has a systematic order in it but we have difficulty understanding it.
If you remove ourselves from the equation, look at the universe as a whole, and think of life here as an ever changing experiment in genetic evolution....then one can see the result as a measure of perfection.

Perfection however, is entirely based on your perception of the ideal.
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Old December 2nd, 2012, 01:42 PM   #3
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If you remove ourselves from the equation, look at the universe as a whole, and think of life here as an ever changing experiment in genetic evolution....then one can see the result as a measure of perfection.

Perfection however, is entirely based on your perception of the ideal.
You are right perfection depends on very subjective perspective but I think we can all agree on some basic things and conditions for understanding each other. I thought that a perfect system would provide the species continuity and some fair conditions for the livings. But I can't see both in a satisfactory manner. Extinct creatures,mass deaths caused by the nature and a way of feeding that weaks being destroyed by the strongs all them in the nature.

However I do the comments with removing myself from the equation of course. Because, when my friend says me 'what a wonderful world this is' he puts himself in the center of universe. İt is surely a perfect situation that he is breathing and enjoy this moment without thinking of all other things around. For many people, this is wonderful because humans are comfortable in it. And already many says that the God created it in that way for human's sake. Maybe this is true but I don't understand how these things as a whole could be considered as perfect. Unique and scary things stand side by side in the nature and it's hard to find a perfection from a big world of contradictions. As I said at my first post, maybe the chaos itself has a systematic order that I couldn't get it.
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Old December 2nd, 2012, 02:04 PM   #4
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You are right perfection depends on very subjective perspective but I think we can all agree on some basic things and conditions for understanding each other. I thought that a perfect system would provide the species continuity and some fair conditions for the livings. But I can't see both in a satisfactory manner. Extinct creatures,mass deaths caused by the nature and a way of feeding that weaks being destroyed by the strongs all them in the nature.

However I do the comments with removing myself from the equation of course. Because, when my friend says me 'what a wonderful world this is' he puts himself in the center of universe. İt is surely a perfect situation that he is breathing and enjoy this moment without thinking of all other things around. For many people, this is wonderful because humans are comfortable in it. And already many says that the God created it in that way for human's sake. Maybe this is true but I don't understand how these things as a whole could be considered as perfect. Unique and scary things stand side by side in the nature and it's hard to find a perfection from a big world of contradictions. As I said at my first post, maybe the chaos itself has a systematic order that I couldn't get it.
As I see it, this world IS chaos....welcome to life as a thinking human on Earth. We however...are not the Universe, and in fact are a tiny part of a tiny part of a itty bitty part of what we even know of the Universe....which is probably a smidgeon of what there is to know.

Human centric thinking is limiting in science...and in some ways makes us stupid. Religion. flat earth, pre Copernican BS did nothing to drive us as far as we have come. We have a long way to go.

The "Contradictions" you note are made up conceptual aspects of our existence...easily put to rest with logical thought. This ability to remove the unproven aspects of our reality truly defines humanity.


Use It!
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Old December 2nd, 2012, 04:18 PM   #5
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For some people, the nature has no regularity but all life being dragged along in chaos.
Could you be more specific about what you see as chaotic? I'm not really sure what you're talking about.
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Old December 3rd, 2012, 09:27 AM   #6
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Here are your answers

Pay attention to this....and it may be you will have fewer questions:
BORKED
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Old December 3rd, 2012, 09:32 AM   #7
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This One As Well

A reason to feel a bit better about who we are:
BORKED
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Old December 3rd, 2012, 10:07 AM   #8
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The universe or this corner of the universe did not evolve for us to survive. We evolved to survive in this corner of the universe- mostly due to chance.
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Old December 3rd, 2012, 09:30 PM   #9
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Could you be more specific about what you see as chaotic? I'm not really sure what you're talking about.
Nature and life. Actually don't know how to be more specific, what determines the nature's effects on livings aren't stable. Stratosphere,landforms and fault lines, meaningless movements of bodies in space etc due to the complexity, many species, inculuding humans had been killed or vanished. Maybe all the process in nature re being driven by the chaotic structure of space.
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Old December 3rd, 2012, 10:04 PM   #10
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Pay attention to this....and it may be you will have fewer questions:
BORKED
İnteresting, it seems that we need to be traveled every corner of this universe to find some satisfying answers for such a questions. But I doubt even being travelld of this universe will ever be enough, it will probably bring new and big questions. For this, I do understand many people's religious behavior against science.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 03:07 AM   #11
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Nature and life. Actually don't know how to be more specific, what determines the nature's effects on livings aren't stable. Stratosphere,landforms and fault lines, meaningless movements of bodies in space etc due to the complexity, many species, inculuding humans had been killed or vanished. Maybe all the process in nature re being driven by the chaotic structure of space.
Thanks. I misunderstood what you were saying.

I don't see the movements of celestial bodies as chaotic, in fact they move according to some easily understandable rules.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 09:17 AM   #12
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Thanks. I misunderstood what you were saying.

I don't see the movements of celestial bodies as chaotic, in fact they move according to some easily understandable rules.
I'm not sure. To put anything's movement in a system of easily understandable physics, You need to know more, as starting point-direction and all the things related to the force multiplier, we don't know all these but we know that what kind of events re required to allow this happen.

Have you read news of any near-Earth asteroid ? Generally, they give a date and odds ratio of a possible collision, but it isn't mean definitely going to hit. When we get closer to this date, the possibilities are turning into a certanity. Knowing anything due to the observation isn't mean that is all understandable with our current physics.

Last edited by reader; December 4th, 2012 at 09:21 AM.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 09:35 AM   #13
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We call this astrophysics....a particular field of science based on Mathematics in equation, as well as the basic understanding of gravity. Once the location in an x.y.z. designation is set....it is possible to calculate a possibility.

There are however, many aspects of gravitational interaction to consider, which will inevitably vary as time progresses.

The science cannot be exact at any time time due to changes in the equation.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 08:25 PM   #14
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Have you read news of any near-Earth asteroid ? Generally, they give a date and odds ratio of a possible collision, but it isn't mean definitely going to hit. When we get closer to this date, the possibilities are turning into a certanity. Knowing anything due to the observation isn't mean that is all understandable with our current physics.
That is not an issue with the physics so much as the certainty of measurements and accounting for all variables. Uncertainty in measurement is a part of all sciences, not just physics. Scientists make it a point to measure uncertainty because it matters.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 10:02 PM   #15
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Of course, possibility is a scientific term, we don't discuss this. I'm just drawing attention to the term of uncertainty that we do not use for calculating the movement of objects which are moving according to easily understandable rules, as Billwrote above.

You wouln't use this term in calculating the movements ofan object on earth unlike the space which are really moving according to the formulated actions and would be reached a definitive conclusion rather than a possıbility which would be improved by more time and observations. We would have a certain knowledge of the result at first in case of the asteroid s acting according to the easly understandable rules for us.

Last edited by reader; December 4th, 2012 at 10:14 PM.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 02:23 AM   #16
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Uncertainty the way it's being used in this thread is not the same thing as chaos.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 05:17 AM   #17
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‘Mr. Kumar was the first avowed atheist I ever met. I discovered this not in the classroom but at the zoo. He was a regular visitor who read the labels and descriptive notices in their entirety and approved of every animal he saw. Each to him was a triumph of logic and mechanics, and nature as a whole was an exceptionally fine illustration of science. To his ears, when an animal felt the urge to mate, it said "Gregor Mendel", recalling the father of genetics, and when it was time to show its mettle, "Charles Darwin", the father of natural selection, and what we took to be bleating, grunting, hissing, snorting, roaring, growling, howling, chirping and screeching were but the thick accents of foreigners. When Mr. Kumar visited the zoo, it was to take the pulse of the universe, and his stethoscopic mind always confirmed to him that everything was in order, that everything was order. He left the zoo feeling scientifically refreshed.’
- Yann Martel, Life of Pi, Ch. 7 (2001)
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Old December 5th, 2012, 12:07 PM   #18
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‘Mr. Kumar was the first avowed atheist I ever met. I discovered this not in the classroom but at the zoo. He was a regular visitor who read the labels and descriptive notices in their entirety and approved of every animal he saw. Each to him was a triumph of logic and mechanics, and nature as a whole was an exceptionally fine illustration of science. To his ears, when an animal felt the urge to mate, it said "Gregor Mendel", recalling the father of genetics, and when it was time to show its mettle, "Charles Darwin", the father of natural selection, and what we took to be bleating, grunting, hissing, snorting, roaring, growling, howling, chirping and screeching were but the thick accents of foreigners. When Mr. Kumar visited the zoo, it was to take the pulse of the universe, and his stethoscopic mind always confirmed to him that everything was in order, that everything was order. He left the zoo feeling scientifically refreshed.’
- Yann Martel, Life of Pi, Ch. 7 (2001)
Great book.
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