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arcturus88 May 20th, 2014 10:16 AM

teaching kids right from wrong
 
I've recently had the job of "dad" thrust on me and came to a perplexing line of thought. when teaching the little one the "right" way i need to reason why it is the right way. there is always, the golden rule, "do it because that's what you want done to you". But that seems to fall a little short because the question of "why?" still persists. in other words, just because i want something good and do good to others it doesn't mean that will return in kind.

as a Christian, i reason in part through theological belief:

~God wants us to do right
~God made us to do right
~etc.



The question is,

if you are an atheist or agnostic how do you reason right from wrong to a child?



tecoyah May 20th, 2014 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcturus88 (Post 50577)
I've recently had the job of "dad" thrust on me and came to a perplexing line of thought. when teaching the little one the "right" way i need to reason why it is the right way. there is always, the golden rule, "do it because that's what you want done to you". But that seems to fall a little short because the question of "why?" still persists. in other words, just because i want something good and do good to others it doesn't mean that will return in kind.

as a Christian, i reason in part through theological belief:

~God wants us to do right
~God made us to do right
~etc.



The question is,

if you are an atheist or agnostic how do you reason right from wrong to a child?

Often by example whenever possible, otherwise talking to the child in a Daddy Voice and explaining the consequences.

arcturus88 May 20th, 2014 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aufgeblassen (Post 50579)
You could do like my grandmother, and say if you are not good, you will end up in jail, and all they give you is bread & water! :D

Seriously, one leads by example; no explanations needed!

what if you are a low life criminal? your example is to do crime. child learns to do crime.

arcturus88 May 20th, 2014 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecoyah (Post 50580)
Often by example whenever possible, otherwise talking to the child in a Daddy Voice and explaining the consequences.

consequences only go so far.

why share or be generous. this may or may not be repaid.

arcturus88 May 20th, 2014 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aufgeblassen (Post 50583)
But YOU are not, therefore it is a non-issue! - hello?!


so how do you rationalize why your example is any better than the criminal's example to his child? (say a successful criminal that avoids getting caught)

arcturus88 May 20th, 2014 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aufgeblassen (Post 50585)
Wasn't your original question how YOU can do your best as a parent??? YES or NO??? :confused:

No.

It was, and I quote:

Quote:

if you are an atheist or agnostic how do you reason right from wrong to a child?

tecoyah May 20th, 2014 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcturus88 (Post 50582)
consequences only go so far.

why share or be generous. this may or may not be repaid.


Hey Johnny, can I play with your hot wheel?

No...It's mine.


Hey daddy, I'm hungry.

Bummer, if only I had a hot wheel to play with....It would make me feel good enough to cook.

:cry:

Polydectes May 20th, 2014 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcturus88 (Post 50577)
if you are an atheist or agnostic how do you reason right from wrong to a child?

Same way Christians do I suppose. Just instead of mentioning God they mention something else. Atheists aren't any different than theists other than they don't believe in a god.

Polydectes May 20th, 2014 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aufgeblassen (Post 50593)
No need to mention God, even when a theist. What? Like the fear of God or something??? Seems like that would backfire. :o

I took you off of ignore to read this thinking perhaps youmight have something intelligent to say.

Nope same mindless drek.

arcturus88 May 20th, 2014 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecoyah (Post 50590)
Hey Johnny, can I play with your hot wheel?

No...It's mine.


Hey daddy, I'm hungry.

Bummer, if only I had a hot wheel to play with....It would make me feel good enough to cook.

:cry:

yeah, i get that and would do the same. so in this case the answer to "why" is if you don't , i don't do for you. thats good behavioral incentive.

however, it still may fall short. if that incentive is not readily there, why do good then?

arcturus88 May 20th, 2014 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polydectes (Post 50592)
Same way Christians do I suppose. Just instead of mentioning God they mention something else.

yes, and its the "something else" that i'm asking about.

arcturus88 May 20th, 2014 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aufgeblassen (Post 50593)
No need to mention God, even when a theist. What? Like the fear of God or something??? Seems like that would backfire. :o

why should your child do good?
you've posted numerous times here , yet have largely avoided that seemingly simple question.

arcturus88 May 20th, 2014 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aufgeblassen (Post 50601)
It would be like the incentive "if you are nice to people, they'll be nice to you". Got it? :unsure:

got it, only i actually addressed and debunked that answer in my 1st post here. oops. please try again ole chap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcturus88 (Post 50577)
... there is always, the golden rule, "do it because that's what you want done to you". But that seems to fall a little short because the question of "why?" still persists. in other words, just because i want something good and do good to others it doesn't mean that will return in kind.


Polydectes May 20th, 2014 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcturus88 (Post 50599)
yes, and its the "something else" that i'm asking about.

I imagine that would be different for each person.

I haven't used God to teach my son morality. That is kind of a sore spot for him. I normally say that you need to do what is right because you want that done to you. There isn't any needfor an objective source of right because that comes from within. Atheists aren't sociopaths. Morality, right and wrong don't come from God it comes from our culture.

arcturus88 May 20th, 2014 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aufgeblassen (Post 50603)
Because the consequences of not can be quite unpleasant indeed.

So do good because of fear of negative consequences. Wait! wasn't that your issue here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aufgeblassen (Post 50593)
..What? Like the fear of God or something??? Seems like that would backfire. :o


arcturus88 May 21st, 2014 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polydectes (Post 50604)
...Atheists aren't sociopaths.

I haven't made that accusation here at all. in fact, i think i have been quite cordial with my query.

Polydectes May 21st, 2014 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcturus88 (Post 50619)
I haven't made that accusation here at all. in fact, i think i have been quite cordial with my query.

Your Query suggests that non believers have to come up with some form ofcop out in order to know right from wrong. Truth be told. The golden rule is the basis for all religions and it is secular as well.

Do onto others as you would have them do unto you. That is the explanation of right and wrong regardless of deity or absence there of. You don't need a deity to come up with that. Every person is a person and they prefer respect and dignity, just like you. To me it's self evident.

I don't really understand what you aren't grasping. The golden rule idsthe basis for Christianity I.e. turn the other cheek, be slow to anger, don't kill, don't judge, don't cheat, don't steal. On and on it goes. Basically all of it summed up by the golden rule.

arcturus88 May 22nd, 2014 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polydectes (Post 50626)
Your Query suggests that non believers have to come up with some form ofcop out in order to know right from wrong.

No it doesn't. if you disagree, show me where you see the suggestion. its an honest curious question about how others with a different world-view approach the topic. maybe reign the hyperbole in a bit.


previously you stated the reason would be different for each individual:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polydectes (Post 50626)
I imagine that would be different for each person.

but here, only a few posts later, you now say everyone arrives there by the golden rule:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Polydectes (Post 50626)

Do onto others as you would have them do unto you. That is the explanation of right and wrong regardless of deity or absence there of. You don't need a deity to come up with that. Every person is a person and they prefer respect and dignity, just like you. To me it's self evident.

I don't really understand what you aren't grasping. The golden rule idsthe basis for Christianity I.e. turn the other cheek, be slow to anger, don't kill, don't judge, don't cheat, don't steal. On and on it goes. Basically all of it summed up by the golden rule.

maybe rather than trying to speak for all of humanity, just stick with your personal approach.

arcturus88 May 22nd, 2014 12:03 PM

essentially the answers i have received from atheists and agnostics are:

- the golden rule. do unto others as you'd like done unto you.
- because i said so

i would like to thank you dirty heathens for your time and effort. ;)

arcturus88 May 22nd, 2014 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aufgeblassen (Post 50639)
You don't seem to like anybody's answers. Maybe rephrase the question? :confused:


its not that i dislike them. i like them very much. in fact, each answer gives me a woody. i have just asked for additional data as to "why" do good. if you have a why. i have not said that my why is better than your why. its just a question. maybe people dont think about the whys. thats ok too.


answers like these just fall short of answering why:

-its self-evident

-just because
-its obvious
-its a no brainer
-end of story


some have answered by pointing to the notion of direct consequences of not doing good (ie punishment). thats a good why, but i question...what if that direct consequence is not there. why do good then?


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