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Old August 11th, 2014, 07:23 PM   #1
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natural interpretations of right and wrong

from a "natural" sense of life, meaning all science chalks up to life, we as humans are "right" or better said, "successful" by one thing and one thing alone.

procreation.

procreation so as to enable our genes to carry on. that means the guy who has 11 kids out of wed-lock and is a dead-beat dad and abuser is a success. he put his genes out there and thus wins from a darwinian standpoint.

wrong or failure in this light is simply not spreading ones genes. so the man who is charitable and perhaps does not have kids but gives to orphanages or even adopts a child or two (of the deadbeats children) is still by this natural definition a failure.

any thoughts?
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Old August 12th, 2014, 02:43 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcturus88 View Post
from a "natural" sense of life, meaning all science chalks up to life, we as humans are "right" or better said, "successful" by one thing and one thing alone.

procreation.

procreation so as to enable our genes to carry on. that means the guy who has 11 kids out of wed-lock and is a dead-beat dad and abuser is a success. he put his genes out there and thus wins from a darwinian standpoint.

wrong or failure in this light is simply not spreading ones genes. so the man who is charitable and perhaps does not have kids but gives to orphanages or even adopts a child or two (of the deadbeats children) is still by this natural definition a failure.

any thoughts?
Humankind have evolved into a societal animal...Due to adaptations this entails it no longer depends on Darwinian evolution or individual survival of the fittest procreation.
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Old August 12th, 2014, 02:41 PM   #3
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Humankind have evolved into a societal animal...Due to adaptations this entails it no longer depends on Darwinian evolution or individual survival of the fittest procreation.

so naturalism falls short of answering moral questions?

from wiki...

Quote:
Naturalism is "the idea or belief that only laws of nature (physical law) (as opposed to supernatural or spiritual) and forces operate in the world; the idea or belief that nothing exists beyond the natural world."[
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Old August 12th, 2014, 04:49 PM   #4
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"Right and successful " / "wrong and failure" were also included in the opening topic and these are very tied in with morality
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Old August 12th, 2014, 11:02 PM   #5
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You seem to prefer to debate semantics rather than the issue I put forth. I wonder why that would be.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 12:21 PM   #6
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I prefer stationary, rather than moving targets!
stop spinning around in circles and your environment should get stationary shortly.
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Old August 13th, 2014, 03:13 PM   #7
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...about:

natural interpretations of right and wrong
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Old August 13th, 2014, 05:28 PM   #8
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Well where would right and wrong come in? If it doesn't come in with naturalism where and when does it?
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Old August 19th, 2014, 08:59 AM   #9
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You seem to prefer to debate semantics rather than the issue I put forth. I wonder why that would be.
Not sure he can.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 09:00 AM   #10
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stop spinning around in circles and your environment should get stationary shortly.
Simple minds are entertained by spinning.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 03:06 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Aufgeblassen View Post
I disagree that procreation is the only success. Survival is the primary success. Procreation is merely icing on the cake.


Considering the incredible amount of children that need viable parents...should we not let them have access to them?
?
But where "right & wrong" comes into the discussion, I have no clue.
Considering the incredible amount of children that need viable parents...should we not let them have access to them?


as for right and wrong you not only "Have a clue"...you have an opinion you wish to share.
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Old August 21st, 2014, 07:35 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcturus88 View Post
from a "natural" sense of life, meaning all science chalks up to life, we as humans are "right" or better said, "successful" by one thing and one thing alone.

procreation.

procreation so as to enable our genes to carry on. that means the guy who has 11 kids out of wed-lock and is a dead-beat dad and abuser is a success. he put his genes out there and thus wins from a darwinian standpoint.

wrong or failure in this light is simply not spreading ones genes. so the man who is charitable and perhaps does not have kids but gives to orphanages or even adopts a child or two (of the deadbeats children) is still by this natural definition a failure.

any thoughts?
I find appeals to nature in deciding whether something is good or bad to be extremely short sided mostly based on your argument above. Basically it's a logical fallacy.
Thanks from arcturus88
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Old August 21st, 2014, 11:14 AM   #13
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I find appeals to nature in deciding whether something is good or bad to be extremely short sided mostly based on your argument above. Basically it's a logical fallacy.
yeah that's the point. i post it to highlight the logical fallacy that nature provides such an argument. or some try but when examined it falls short.

Last edited by arcturus88; August 21st, 2014 at 11:31 AM.
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Old August 21st, 2014, 11:31 AM   #14
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i dont know what you mean.
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Old August 22nd, 2014, 05:29 PM   #15
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yeah that's the point. i post it to highlight the logical fallacy that nature provides such an argument. or some try but when examined it falls short.
Yeah, I agree. It's a bad point to argue but I haven't really seen much real debate on it here.
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