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Old November 8th, 2017, 11:01 AM   #1
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Spiritual philosophy discussion.

When I read the following message I was intrigued. Is a theist I often find it hard to empathize with atheists. There was once a time when I believed they were just angry with God. Or that they just didn't want to have any authority over them. However speaking to them honestly and openly I have grown. It has caused me to evaluate my beliefs.

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Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
Personally I prefer to leave retribution to karma rather than damage my own. Unless of course it effects my own, then I become karma.
Karma? As in the sum of a person's actions? Or are you using this term in a more philosophical sense? Either way it surprises me. I suppose it shouldn't. I don't view non- theists as bad people. It makes me wonder though. Is there some (for lack of a better word) "spirituality" within you?

I am genuinely curious, this isn't a political thing for me, so it would be interesting to discuss this philosophically.

I also welcome all the posters on this board to discus this as well.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 11:16 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polydectes View Post
When I read the following message I was intrigued. Is a theist I often find it hard to empathize with atheists. There was once a time when I believed they were just angry with God. Or that they just didn't want to have any authority over them. However speaking to them honestly and openly I have grown. It has caused me to evaluate my beliefs.



Karma? As in the sum of a person's actions? Or are you using this term in a more philosophical sense? Either way it surprises me. I suppose it shouldn't. I don't view non- theists as bad people. It makes me wonder though. Is there some (for lack of a better word) "spirituality" within you?

I am genuinely curious, this isn't a political thing for me, so it would be interesting to discuss this philosophically.

I also welcome all the posters on this board to discus this as well.
Karma to me is the eventual manifestation of "That which is" or the Universe. I hesitate to use the term Spiritual in anything because the word creates confusion anymore and has been adopted by religions. Karma is simply the reality of what goes around comes around whether by reaction from a human or eventual recompense.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 11:48 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
Karma to me is the eventual manifestation of "That which is" or the Universe. I hesitate to use the term Spiritual in anything because the word creates confusion anymore and has been adopted by religions. Karma is simply the reality of what goes around comes around whether by reaction from a human or eventual recompense.
Interesting...
So do you believe that if you put good things in to that which is or the universe you get good things out of it, or is it that you put good things in not expecting to get good things out of it?
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Old November 8th, 2017, 12:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
Karma to me is the eventual manifestation of "That which is" or the Universe. I hesitate to use the term Spiritual in anything because the word creates confusion anymore and has been adopted by religions. Karma is simply the reality of what goes around comes around whether by reaction from a human or eventual recompense.
While I don't disagree with the sentiment, I find it amusing how Buddhism and Hinduism have so completely and seamlessly gotten into the heads of Westerners without anyone noticing. Karma, reincarnation, enlightenment, yoga, etc. it doesn't matter. Atheist, Christian, Muslim, Jew, etc. pretty much everyone accepts everything but the relevant gods (unless actually Buddhist/Hindu themselves) without question. Even when people DO notice, it's usually met with a shrug such as a Fundi Christian I know of that goes on about 'Christian Yoga' (the same as regular yoga, just rebranded to not be 'pagan') to justify their lifestyle being Indian.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 12:36 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Polydectes View Post
Interesting...
So do you believe that if you put good things in to that which is or the universe you get good things out of it, or is it that you put good things in not expecting to get good things out of it?
Actually in my opinion Karma is not something I put much thought into. The very Idea is to simply be kind and thoughtful of others and everything takes care of itself. There is also an underlying "Past Lives" aspect which is in the background but obviously unimportant in the realities of life.
Karma has a way of dealing John Lennons "Instant" version as well which can be situational and more episodal in the course of living this life. As an example:

In my first marriage my wife eliminated sex and affection, driving me to an action I see as very negative and hurtful...I cheated on her. I then married the woman I cheated on her with who eventually cheated on me. I am now married to a most amazing and beautiful, sensual woman primarily because I accepted my own childish idiocy and forgave hers.
I personally attribute this part of my life to an understanding of Karma and acceptance of the realities of our wonderfully flawed existence.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 01:10 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
Actually in my opinion Karma is not something I put much thought into. The very Idea is to simply be kind and thoughtful of others and everything takes care of itself. There is also an underlying "Past Lives" aspect which is in the background but obviously unimportant in the realities of life.
Karma has a way of dealing John Lennons "Instant" version as well which can be situational and more episodal in the course of living this life. As an example:

In my first marriage my wife eliminated sex and affection, driving me to an action I see as very negative and hurtful...I cheated on her. I then married the woman I cheated on her with who eventually cheated on me. I am now married to a most amazing and beautiful, sensual woman primarily because I accepted my own childish idiocy and forgave hers.
I personally attribute this part of my life to an understanding of Karma and acceptance of the realities of our wonderfully flawed existence.
That's an interesting take thanks for sharing. I'm glad you finally figured it out it's pretty rewarding finding the right person and being the right person for them.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 03:07 PM   #7
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'
I am quite happy to accept many things, including religion, as metaphors.

I am very much against taking these metaphors as dogmatic Truth --- that constitutes Idolatry, which we know is a hateful abomination in the eyes of the (metaphorical) God.
.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 03:36 PM   #8
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Quote:
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'
I am quite happy to accept many things, including religion, as metaphors.
I agree. I personally am interested in Taoism.

Quote:
I am very much against taking these metaphors as dogmatic Truth --- that constitutes Idolatry, which we know is a hateful abomination in the eyes of the (metaphorical) God.
.
Again I agree. Strict adherence to dogmatic ideology has been the downfall of many civilizations and cultures. I tend to avoid such things.

And you made a comment I find intriguing. A metaphorical God... for whatever reason I get that you are either agnostic or atheist and it's interesting to hear people of that persuasion except at least the metaphor.

Thanks for posting
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Old November 9th, 2017, 03:29 PM   #9
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I am a militant atheist who is a worshiper of the Divine Beauty which constitutes the heart of Reality.
.
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Old November 9th, 2017, 03:55 PM   #10
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Some quotations about the metaphorical God:

God is, after all, ultimate reality. And you can't argue that
ultimate reality doesn't really exist. You can only ask what it's all about.

---Logan Pearsall Smith

Common meaning of "God": that which is beyond human control. [cf. the legal term, "an act of God," or Bismarck's "God has given us on our flank the French...."]
---yours truly

God : that which has no definition.
---Joseph Albo

We perceive Truth as a coherence which cannot be formulated.
---T. S. Eliot

[God is] a superior power of Reason...revealed in the incomprehensible universe.
---Albert Einstein

Art is nature speeded up and God slowed down.
---Malcolm de Chazal

The universe is one of God's thoughts.
---Friedrich Schiller

God is truth, and light his shadow.
---yours truly

The sun itself is the dark simulacrum, and light is the shadow of God.
---Sir Thomas Browne

What is the chief end of man? : "To glorify God and enjoy Him forever."
---Shorter Catechism of the Anglican Church

What is the chief end of man? : "To glorify Divine Beauty and enjoy it forever."
---yours truly

God is an excellent servant, but a bad master.
---yours truly

God is so great he does not even need to exist.
---anon.

The only excuse for God is that he does not exist.
---Nietzsche

Just because something does not exist does not mean that it cannot affect the world.
The gods of the various religions do not exist, yet they affect the world [usually negatively].

---yours truly

Evil and pain exist, so God cannot be all-benevolent.
God cannot make a stone bigger than he can roll, so He cannot be omnipotent.
Gödel's Law exists, so God cannot be omniscient.

---your truly

I don't mind God ---it's his fan club I can't stand.
---a friend of yours truly

Perhaps it is logically impossible to predict the optimal history of the universe
a priori [it would require a computer program of a complexity greater than aleph-one
-- vide the mathematical work of Gregory Chaitin].
So we all play out our lives over and over again in God's Mind that He may form
an asymptotic approximation to the optimal universal history.

---yours truly
.
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