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Old March 21st, 2009, 09:19 AM   #1
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Why's god gotta be such a drama queen?

So I'm sure most of us know about the story how god gave his son Jesus so that our sins could be forgiven and we could have everlasting life. Really though? I mean, this is an all powerful, all knowledgeable god, and he couldn't come up with a better way to forgive us and give us everlasting life.

I mean, he could have waved his arms and "poof!" Everlasting life. But no, he's gotta go cause all this drama about how he gave his only begotten son because he loves us so much.
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Old March 21st, 2009, 10:24 AM   #2
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No offense (religious topics are always the most heated discussion, so please don't take any offense from any of my posts ) but I think you're the one being the "drama queen". That's just like asking, why doesn't Satan just kill us all? The answer is simple, God doesn't let him. Well actually, now that I think of it, explaining Christianity to Atheists or any other religion.. it's kind of hard actually. So your question - why did God send down Jesus? I don't think I even know the answer to that (I'm ashamed of myself! ) but waving his arms and doing a magic trick.. wouldn't that seem kind of boring? And he's not the one to cause all the "drama" about religion, it's the humans that do.
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Old March 21st, 2009, 12:34 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by UnitedCanada View Post
No offense (religious topics are always the most heated discussion, so please don't take any offense from any of my posts ) but I think you're the one being the "drama queen". That's just like asking, why doesn't Satan just kill us all? The answer is simple, God doesn't let him. Well actually, now that I think of it, explaining Christianity to Atheists or any other religion.. it's kind of hard actually. So your question - why did God send down Jesus? I don't think I even know the answer to that (I'm ashamed of myself! ) but waving his arms and doing a magic trick.. wouldn't that seem kind of boring? And he's not the one to cause all the "drama" about religion, it's the humans that do.
Hah, true, it was a dramatic post and no offense taken - just trying to add a bit of humor to a serious question - so as for it not to be boring

It would be boring for him to just do it, but to kill his son when there are more efficient ways of "saving" us seems a little, well cruel and unnecessary.
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Old March 22nd, 2009, 10:46 PM   #4
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Well the reasoning is simple. Would you believe in a religion where the big guy just said "You're all free from your sin" ? No. Most people want some showmanship in their religion. They liked the idea of being persecuted and a pure man dying to try and save them. Pretty standard mythology really. The hero's sacrifice for the common man.

The reason is also probably based around basic scapegoat ideology. Villages at the time supposedly would place all their sin on a selected goat. They would then send it out into the desert to die and carry away their sins. Again, pretty standard.

It also probably helped that the figure of Jesus was probably killed in a grand execution for his religious beliefs. It was fairly common for the time. Adding a little mythology to it was natural when it came time to write the book. You just have to look at what we did to George Washington to see how easy we can make fables about beloved figures.

Again, that's what I never understood about Christianity. Why would their God be so versed in our substandard methods. Wouldn't he be so powerful that he could do what he wanted or manage it perfectly. I guess that's why I always liked Lovecraft's writing. His Eldritch gods just didn't care about humans. We were like ants.
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 11:29 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by The Parakeet View Post
Well the reasoning is simple. Would you believe in a religion where the big guy just said "You're all free from your sin" ? No. Most people want some showmanship in their religion. They liked the idea of being persecuted and a pure man dying to try and save them. Pretty standard mythology really. The hero's sacrifice for the common man.

The reason is also probably based around basic scapegoat ideology. Villages at the time supposedly would place all their sin on a selected goat. They would then send it out into the desert to die and carry away their sins. Again, pretty standard.

It also probably helped that the figure of Jesus was probably killed in a grand execution for his religious beliefs. It was fairly common for the time. Adding a little mythology to it was natural when it came time to write the book. You just have to look at what we did to George Washington to see how easy we can make fables about beloved figures.

Again, that's what I never understood about Christianity. Why would their God be so versed in our substandard methods. Wouldn't he be so powerful that he could do what he wanted or manage it perfectly. I guess that's why I always liked Lovecraft's writing. His Eldritch gods just didn't care about humans. We were like ants.
Exactly. There are countless examples of how human god is and if you really think about it - there is no reason an all powerful being would be so human-like. It doesn't make sense that an omnipotent being would be jealous if you worshipped a fake god, or that as you say, use substandard methods to accomplish his simple tasks. It all points to the fact that gods are man-made and not the other way around.
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 05:00 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by UnitedCanada View Post
No offense (religious topics are always the most heated discussion, so please don't take any offense from any of my posts ) but I think you're the one being the "drama queen". That's just like asking, why doesn't Satan just kill us all? The answer is simple, God doesn't let him. Well actually, now that I think of it, explaining Christianity to Atheists or any other religion.. it's kind of hard actually. So your question - why did God send down Jesus? I don't think I even know the answer to that (I'm ashamed of myself! ) but waving his arms and doing a magic trick.. wouldn't that seem kind of boring? And he's not the one to cause all the "drama" about religion, it's the humans that do.
One of the best post I've seen so far. Since we all have different religion and some are atheist, it's really hard to explain your thoughts on this matter and what we Christians feel when reading your replies. But I respect your sides on this matter.

And to answer the op's question, I'm afraid but I really don't know why. What I knew is God chose Jesus to be the saviour of mankind thus cleaning the Original Sins which Adam and Eve commited. And on your question on why doesn't God give everlasting life at first, I think he want to test our faith in him so that he will know who is deserving or not.

This is only my thoughts so don't get offended.
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 06:12 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by GekiDan View Post
One of the best post I've seen so far. Since we all have different religion and some are atheist, it's really hard to explain your thoughts on this matter and what we Christians feel when reading your replies. But I respect your sides on this matter.

And to answer the op's question, I'm afraid but I really don't know why. What I knew is God chose Jesus to be the saviour of mankind thus cleaning the Original Sins which Adam and Eve commited. And on your question on why doesn't God give everlasting life at first, I think he want to test our faith in him so that he will know who is deserving or not.

This is only my thoughts so don't get offended.
Thanks for the reply. No offense taken at all. I realize religion can get very heated. While a lot of my posts are going to seem pretty blunt and sometimes sarcastic, I am truly interested in the answers given and am expecting posts that oppose my views
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Old March 24th, 2009, 04:04 AM   #8
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Thanks for the reply. No offense taken at all. I realize religion can get very heated. While a lot of my posts are going to seem pretty blunt and sometimes sarcastic, I am truly interested in the answers given and am expecting posts that oppose my views
Well.. I really thank myp for inviting me here. I really learned alot from all the views given by different people with different beliefs. At first, it's very hard to take your replies since it really opposes our religion. But now, I'm able to take it since all people have different opinions on all things.
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Old March 24th, 2009, 09:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta View Post
So I'm sure most of us know about the story how god gave his son Jesus so that our sins could be forgiven and we could have everlasting life. Really though? I mean, this is an all powerful, all knowledgeable god, and he couldn't come up with a better way to forgive us and give us everlasting life.

I mean, he could have waved his arms and "poof!" Everlasting life. But no, he's gotta go cause all this drama about how he gave his only begotten son because he loves us so much.
I believe it had much to do with "free will". God wants us to do good because we want to do good things. Not because he programed a bunch of robots.

Just this old mans opinion. Don't worry I have many opinions on many things for you to look forward to hearing.
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Old March 24th, 2009, 08:45 PM   #10
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I believe it had much to do with "free will". God wants us to do good because we want to do good things. Not because he programed a bunch of robots.

Just this old mans opinion. Don't worry I have many opinions on many things for you to look forward to hearing.
It is basically "free will" like what you have said and because of this, many people tend to do good and bad things. I can say it's a good thing since we can see a balanced world. Do you think it will be better is there's only good people on Earth?

I also do want to hear your opinions on other things.
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Old March 26th, 2009, 06:30 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by GekiDan View Post
It is basically "free will" like what you have said and because of this, many people tend to do good and bad things. I can say it's a good thing since we can see a balanced world. Do you think it will be better is there's only good people on Earth?

I also do want to hear your opinions on other things.
As I think about " only good people on Earth" sounds very dull. But it should also feel very safe and friendly. A world of people undamaged by having been victimized by anyone might be nice. I need to think about it some more.
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Old March 26th, 2009, 10:04 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta View Post
So I'm sure most of us know about the story how god gave his son Jesus so that our sins could be forgiven and we could have everlasting life. Really though? I mean, this is an all powerful, all knowledgeable god, and he couldn't come up with a better way to forgive us and give us everlasting life.

I mean, he could have waved his arms and "poof!" Everlasting life. But no, he's gotta go cause all this drama about how he gave his only begotten son because he loves us so much.
God probably got tired of Jesus not cleaning his room. "Me damnit Jesus. I swear if you don't clean this room I'm sending down to Earth to die for peoples sins!"
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Old March 26th, 2009, 12:16 PM   #13
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God probably got tired of Jesus not cleaning his room. "Me damnit Jesus. I swear if you don't clean this room I'm sending down to Earth to die for peoples sins!"
Hahah, that's brilliant! "Me damnit Jesus" - gold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GekiDan
It is basically "free will" like what you have said and because of this, many people tend to do good and bad things. I can say it's a good thing since we can see a balanced world. Do you think it will be better is there's only good people on Earth?

I also do want to hear your opinions on other things.
I actually had a very looong conversation about this with a friend. I argued that god really didn't need to bring evil into the world with the tree of good and evil. It could have just been like... good and neutral. :P Of course there was a little more to it than that but that's for another thread.

However, GekiDan, this is the view of heaven people have - just pure good. Where would the balance be there?
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Old March 26th, 2009, 09:25 PM   #14
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I actually had a very looong conversation about this with a friend. I argued that god really didn't need to bring evil into the world with the tree of good and evil. It could have just been like... good and neutral. :P Of course there was a little more to it than that but that's for another thread.

However, GekiDan, this is the view of heaven people have - just pure good. Where would the balance be there?
Now that you mentioned it, I can't really think of the correct answer for that. Maybe that's what we call "Rest in Peace". But just like what DodgeFB said, if Earth will only have good people, it will be dull and boring. There's no protagonists that can make one surpass his challenges and learn from it.
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Old March 28th, 2009, 09:17 PM   #15
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Why? Because otherwise we wouldn't have paid any attention. And that's true of all religions.
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Old April 1st, 2009, 09:36 AM   #16
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Personally I don't think God is confined to these human emotions we have. He's a being that we'll never understand, so we try to endow him with human characteristics. (Well if he exists that is.) I think in the modern age we're doing the same thing the ancients did to things they didn't understand about the spiritual world and just add things we know to the myth to make it more relatable. (So I guess in my case God is a hot lesbian who likes anime and Scifi.) God in the old testament was the envisioned by the waring nomad tribes of Israeli as being very... well bipolar. He was a kind and caring God, but will smite you in heart beat. In the new testament God has a fashion change (I think I saw it on HGTV) and suddenly is less hands on and is more about the love. Then when the Holy Roman Empire happened once again God is taking matters in his own hands and decides to fight Muslims while at the exact same time fights Crusaders.... That one is confusing. But yes... whatever age we live in God changes with the times. He doesn't really... we change and just fit him in our expectations. That's pretty much it.
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Old April 3rd, 2009, 04:58 AM   #17
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So, while I am a deist of sorts, perhaps an agnostic, I really do get a bit tired of the "God is this" or "God is that". And usually it simply is whatever the cultural imperative is of the believer. But atheists see no God at all, which is a bit presuming to me. We sure didn't create the universe, and if something did, I figure they deserve some serious respect.

Yes, I know. It all just happened. Sure. Some people believe that UFO's fly around the sky and occasionally fall out of it after traveling a few million light years successfully. Without so much unequivocal evidence either. But faced with a huge universe that is beyond our comprehension (though we do try to pretend we are getting all sorted out), God seems too much of a reach. Dunno about that.

But I do agree that he (or she or it) doesn't resemble mankind and I rather doubt that we are more special than the dodo bird or the dinosaurs, so I don't think we are getting some special deal at the end of the ride.

So it goes.
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Old August 11th, 2010, 08:39 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Delta View Post
So I'm sure most of us know about the story how god gave his son Jesus so that our sins could be forgiven and we could have everlasting life. Really though? I mean, this is an all powerful, all knowledgeable god, and he couldn't come up with a better way to forgive us and give us everlasting life.

I mean, he could have waved his arms and "poof!" Everlasting life. But no, he's gotta go cause all this drama about how he gave his only begotten son because he loves us so much.
Drama queen or no, there would have had to have been a better way. The whole story has 'human concept' written all over it.
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Old August 12th, 2010, 09:21 PM   #19
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Interestingly enough the story is for humans... odd that huh?

So what is that better way?
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Old August 16th, 2010, 05:36 AM   #20
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So what is that better way?
Being I'm not all knowing, I wouldn't know the best way, but here is one example:
God could have permitted everyone who believes in it to live with it in heaven, and not condemn people to hell for not believing in him.
If it's all powerful, surely this could have been one way (of most likely many ways) to work the plan.

One would have to accept the fact that there would be another better way for an all knowing, loving, powerful being to work its plan.
The currenly accepted way is very "human" in its construct.

I find it odd, as a former christian, that people so willingly accept what people tell them a book says without legitimate thought.

The whole idea of how this god works is nothing expected of a supernatural being, but one of hundred of years of human tinkering with an ideal.
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