Californian killed while visiting Mexico.

David · Jan 1, 2010

Californian killed while visiting Mexico.

So this guy, a highly respected member of his community and a dedicated educator, was visiting relatives in Mexico. While eating out, the restaurant he was at was raided by militants and he (and 5 others) were later found in some roadside ditch, having been executed.

Mexico has clearly descended into outright civil war, why are we not doing anything?

myp · Jan 1, 2010

David said:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/01/01/mexico.us.killing/index.htmlMexico has clearly descended into outright civil war, why are we not doing anything?

Because there is not enough corporate or special interest. But in all seriousness, I do not believe we should be in Mexico (at least not on our own accord), although I do believe we should protect our southern border as a lot of that violence is spilling over, especially in Arizona.

Nearly · Jan 2, 2010

This is awful news, but America is in too many wars at the moment to fight another. Obama is getting people out of Iraq just to put them into Mexico? I think not.

David · Jan 2, 2010

Nearly said:
This is awful news, but America is in too many wars at the moment to fight another. Obama is getting people out of Iraq just to put them into Mexico? I think not.

Yes, but the Iraq War isn't being fought in American cities.

myp · Jan 2, 2010

Nearly said:
This is awful news, but America is in too many wars at the moment to fight another. Obama is getting people out of Iraq just to put them into Mexico? I think not.

I wouldn't push them into Mexico, but I would love to see them being pulled and say being pushed to the border of Arizona and Mexico. Look at Phoenix's crime rates- that city is going through a crisis just because of the spillover. We need to be protecting our own borders instead of those half way across the world.

David · Jan 2, 2010

myp said:
I wouldn't push them into Mexico, but I would love to see them being pulled and say being pushed to the border of Arizona and Mexico. Look at Phoenix's crime rates- that city is going through a crisis just because of the spillover. We need to be protecting our own borders instead of those half way across the world.

The problem is that the debate over the order is 1 of immigration. The Right missis the big picture and the Left (rightly) claims racism. The result is an undefended border due to PC and spillover as Mexican rebels and the warlords they work for start carving pieces of the American SW out for themselves.

See how many people oppose border security once you tell them it's to stop warlords from having their way with the Homeland. The only people that will have an issue are the ones doing all the pillaging.

myp · Jan 2, 2010

David said:
The problem is that the debate over the order is 1 of immigration. The Right missis the big picture and the Left (rightly) claims racism.

Just wondering what you have in mind that is racist. I know there are some out there racist, so I won't argue that there are those on the right (and in my opinion the left as well) that are racist, but I think the majority isn't.

As for the left, they take it a step too far in the other direction with the whole amnesty talk.

David · Jan 2, 2010

myp said:
Just wondering what you have in mind that is racist. I know there are some out there racist, so I won't argue that there are those on the right (and in my opinion the left as well) that are racist, but I think the majority isn't.

As for the left, they take it a step too far in the other direction with the whole amnesty talk.

The way I see amnesty is this, tax revenue.

DodgeFB · Jan 2, 2010

David said:
The way I see amnesty is this, tax revenue.

The same could be said for letting people buy their way out of prison. When they start out on day one as a law breaker they should not be rewarded. Maybe they could sell drunks a free DWI pass. That would bring in money too. I know attorneys get people out of DWIs everyday but that money goes in their pocket.

myp · Jan 2, 2010

David said:
The way I see amnesty is this, tax revenue.

Not if you have a heavy welfare system that a lot of those immigrants will qualify for. How many Mexican millionaires do we see crossing the borders? Not many.

David · Jan 2, 2010

myp said:
Not if you have a heavy welfare system that a lot of those immigrants will qualify for. How many Mexican millionaires do we see crossing the borders? Not many.

And I'm in full support of abolishing the welfare state. If you're too lazy to work, you deserve to starve.

Dirk · Jan 2, 2010

myp said:
Just wondering what you have in mind that is racist. I know there are some out there racist, so I won't argue that there are those on the right (and in my opinion the left as well) that are racist, but I think the majority isn't.

That's the wrong way to phrase it, i'd argue. Racism is consciously thinking one race inferior or superior. No self-respecting leftist thinks that. In combatting racism, however, some left-wingers try to counteract it. They don't understand that discrimination is discrimination. A true egalitarian, however, will not favour one over the other.

myp said:
Not if you have a heavy welfare system that a lot of those immigrants will qualify for. How many Mexican millionaires do we see crossing the borders? Not many.

It might be a contributing factor. I think the primary reason is that they're poor in the first place. Why? They have a dysfunctional society, which doesn't care for the poor.

Not only that, because of NAFTA, there are a lot more poor. Let me clarify, NAFTA has nothing to do with free trade. It is an initiative for heavily subsidised American agribusiness to flood the Mexican market with cheap goods. A side effect is that Mexican farmers are thrust out of business.

On the subject of Mexico, solidarity to comrades, the EZLN in the South.

David · Jan 2, 2010

Dirk said:
That's the wrong way to phrase it, i'd argue. Racism is consciously thinking one race inferior or superior. No self-respecting leftist thinks that. In combatting racism, however, some left-wingers try to counteract it. They don't understand that discrimination is discrimination. A true egalitarian, however, will not favour one over the other.

It might be a contributing factor. I think the primary reason is that they're poor in the first place. Why? They have a dysfunctional society, which doesn't care for the poor.

Not only that, because of NAFTA, there are a lot more poor. Let me clarify, NAFTA has nothing to do with free trade. It is an initiative for heavily subsidised American agribusiness to flood the Mexican market with cheap goods. A side effect is that Mexican farmers are thrust out of business.

On the subject of Mexico, solidarity to comrades, the EZLN in the South.

Mexico, Communists in the south, warlords in the north and a non-functional gov't challenged by a shadow socialist gov't at every turn. Any wonder why Somalia is the only 'country' considered more corrupt?

myp · Jan 2, 2010

David said:
And I'm in full support of abolishing the welfare state. If you're too lazy to work, you deserve to starve.

My point was you can't really say tax revenue will increase if we allow amnesty. If you abolish the welfare state, maybe, but not without doing so.

Dirk said:
That's the wrong way to phrase it, i'd argue. Racism is consciously thinking one race inferior or superior. No self-respecting leftist thinks that. In combatting racism, however, some left-wingers try to counteract it. They don't understand that discrimination is discrimination. A true egalitarian, however, will not favour one over the other.

When I said left I meant the big government left of today's America- much of which tries to fight discrimination with discrimination as you described.

David said:
It might be a contributing factor. I think the primary reason is that they're poor in the first place. Why? They have a dysfunctional society, which doesn't care for the poor.

That point can be argued. How to best care for the poor (capitalism or welfare) is another issue. My point though was just to say that with our current welfare system, tax revenue wouldn't necessarily increase should we allow amnesty.

David said:
Not only that, because of NAFTA, there are a lot more poor. Let me clarify, NAFTA has nothing to do with free trade. It is an initiative for heavily subsidised American agribusiness to flood the Mexican market with cheap goods. A side effect is that Mexican farmers are thrust out of business.

You're preaching to the choir

As a free market capitalist, I know NAFTA is not conducive to free trade.

David · Jan 3, 2010

myp said:
My point was you can't really say tax revenue will increase if we allow amnesty. If you abolish the welfare state, maybe, but not without doing so.

When I said left I meant the big government left of today's America- much of which tries to fight discrimination with discrimination as you described.

That point can be argued. How to best care for the poor (capitalism or welfare) is another issue. My point though was just to say that with our current welfare system, tax revenue wouldn't necessarily increase should we allow amnesty.

You're preaching to the choir As a free market capitalist, I know NAFTA is not conducive to free trade.

I didn't say the last 2 parts of that... :unsure:

Dirk · Jan 3, 2010

David said:
Mexico, Communists in the south, warlords in the north and a non-functional gov't challenged by a shadow socialist gov't at every turn. Any wonder why Somalia is the only 'country' considered more corrupt?

They're not communists, they're libertarian socialists. Though not as extreme as me.

myp said:
That point can be argued. How to best care for the poor (capitalism or welfare) is another issue.

Or socialism.

Or indeed another system neither of us have thought of.

My point though was just to say that with our current welfare system, tax revenue wouldn't necessarily increase should we allow amnesty.

It wasn't an issue i was addressing?

I was stating a reason that many Mexicans are so poor.

You're preaching to the choir As a free market capitalist, I know NAFTA is not conducive to free trade.

I presumed so, but it's always fun to show off knowledge.

David said:
I didn't say the last 2 parts of that... :unsure:

Indeed. That was me.

Californian killed while visiting Mexico.

Similar threads