Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - Torpedoing the Two State Solution Israeli Settlements

I think the continuing Israeli settlement construction is wrong. It is disrespectful to anyone wanting to reach a peaceful settlement to this problem. Much like building a outdoor toilet in my backyard by a neighbor would be to me.

Israeli settlements are wrong. My position to the overall conflict in general is that Israel has a right to defense when Hamas are attacking from Gaza in the south and Hezbollah are attacking from Lebanon in the north, and with the greater threat Iran further east. Sometimes the Israeli defense can be too extreme and cause too many casualties, but it begs the question if Israel did nothing most of the casualties and even more of them would be inhabitants on the Israeli side of the border. The Israeli government, obviously, see it as their task to defend their own people.

Kingdom said:

The Israeli government, obviously, see it as their task to defend their own people.

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Absolutely! Every government has not only the right, but the obligation to defend their people.

I feel like both sides really enjoy pissing each other off at times. They know how to push each others buttons and do so at every opportunity. Then raise hell when the other side retaliates.

DodgeFB said:

I feel like both sides really enjoy pissing each other off at times. They know how to push each others buttons and do so at every opportunity. Then raise hell when the other side retaliates.

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Of course they know each other well, we're talking about, historically, brothers and sisters here. They know each other too well, so you're quite right.

Khalil, et al,

I believe that the entire discussion is based on a faulty premise.

(DISCUSSION)

Almost universally accepted is the following:


The 11 Settlements are not legal; simply because Israel has decided to ignore the law.

(SIDE BAR)

It is generally understood that the US considers itself, like Israel, to be above the law, and thus neither has a firm relationship with the ICC. So neither is technically bound unless one side loses a conflict to an ICC signatory. Oddly enough - within the Region, Jordan (ratified 11 April 2002) and Tunisia (ratified 24 June 2011) as well as:

• Algeria signed 28 December 2000
• Bahrain signed 11 December 2000
• Egypt signed 26 December 2000
• Iran signed 31 December 2000
• Israel signed 31 December 2000
• Kuwait signed 8 September 2000
• Morocco signed 8 September 2000
• Oman signed 20 December 2000
• Syria signed 29 November 2000
• United Arab Emirates signed 27 November 2000
• Yemen signed 28 December 2000
  SOURCE: http://www.iccnow.org/documents/signatory_chart_Nov_2011_EN.pdf
  
  While the US did sign, it did not ratify, and is not a member of the ICC. Israel did not sign.

(COMMENT) The Sky is Green.

Israel and the US, by shear force, can abandon the reality of what is right. It does not mean that it is right. Nowhere, in the Middle East, is any nation going to recognize that Israel is above the law.

The US and Israel are intentionally trying to make the negotiations concerning the Occupied Territories impossible to resolve. This will end only when one side or the other is defeated - or - when Israel becomes Arab dominant by population. In such an event Israel as a Jewish State, will be no more. Death by self-inflected wound of stupidity.

Most Respectfully,
R

RoccoR said:

when Israel becomes Arab dominant by population.

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Magical sentence. This is exactly what's going on, and it makes me wonder. Why to the UN is it so okay that Palestinians and other Arabs live in Israel? But when Israelis wanna live in Palestinian territories, it's occupation.

Kingdom, et al,

Oh, this is an easy one. We don't call it "The Occupied Territories" for nothing.


(COMMENT)

First, just over 20% of the Israeli Citizens are Arab. It is not that the "UN is it so okay that Palestinians and other Arabs live in Israel;" they are Israeli Citizen.

Second, including East Jerusalem, there are about a half million Israelis living in settlements along the West Bank.

Under Article 49 of the 4th Geneva Convention, an occupying power may not transfer indigenous citizens from its own territory to the occupied territory. This is considered a War Crime under the Rome Statue (Art 8. Part II, RS ICC) (supra).

Now I'm not defending the Palestinian; but, I do recognize the wrong.

Most Respectfully,
R

Well i am astonished to see americans who criticize Israel and say that their settlements in Palestine is wrong!!!

For we, the Muslims, Israel's aggression is unacceptable and as Mr dodge and kingdom have said we have the right to defend our land and our peoples whether it is in IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN OR PALESTINE!!!

In Palestine, before 1948 the Jews were also living in Palestine, in fact passing their lives more happily than in some other western country.. and the history also shows us that the Jews lived the most favorable life under the Muslims but not the Christians... you guys can take the examples of Spain where due to Inquisition most Jews families left Europe to Ottoman Empire, Turkey!

But why now the situation is so different, in my view it is due to :

1- Zionism and Zionists fake ideology that now more Jews also critisize the Zionist ideology

2- other people responsible were the British and Roosevelt's government!!!!!

Due to these two things the situation of Palestine went into turmoil!!!

afghan said:

Well i am astonished to see americans who criticize Israel and say that their settlements in Palestine is wrong!!!

For we, the Muslims, Israel's aggression is unacceptable and as Mr dodge and kingdom have said we have the right to defend our land and our peoples whether it is in IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN OR PALESTINE!!!

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You know the best part of that for me? We can say that and have no fear that someone will come and drag us off in the dark of night for saying it.
I can criticize the USA, Israel, or anyone else without being arrested or killed.
And it feels great. I wish everyone everywhere could do the same.

RoccoR said:

Kingdom, et al,

Oh, this is an easy one. We don't call it "The Occupied Territories" for nothing.

​

(COMMENT)

First, just over 20% of the Israeli Citizens are Arab. It is not that the "UN is it so okay that Palestinians and other Arabs live in Israel;" they are Israeli Citizen.

Second, including East Jerusalem, there are about a half million Israelis living in settlements along the West Bank.

Under Article 49 of the 4th Geneva Convention, an occupying power may not transfer indigenous citizens from its own territory to the occupied territory. This is considered a War Crime under the Rome Statue (Art 8. Part II, RS ICC) (supra).

Now I'm not defending the Palestinian; but, I do recognize the wrong.

Most Respectfully,
R

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I understand that, and I agree. And no, not all of them are Israeli citizens, but they've just come from other countries because they see that the standards of living are better in Israel than in most othr surrounding countries. Nothing wrong with that, but then the UN never bothers to mention this. They just seem to have this vendetta against Israel, which in the long run to be frank, is kinda tiring.

Afghan, et al,

I thank you; but would like to make a distinction.

afghan said:

Well i am astonished to see americans who criticize Israel and say that their settlements in Palestine is wrong!!!

For we, the Muslims, Israel's aggression is unacceptable and as Mr dodge and kingdom have said we have the right to defend our land and our peoples whether it is in IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN OR PALESTINE!!!

Click to expand...

(COMMENT)

I don't consider what the Israelis have done as "aggression." The territories, now occupied, were taken as a result of the 1967 War (AKA: The Six Day War or the Third Arab-Israeli War). That is to say that the --- War when the combined forces of Egypt, Jordan and Syria were massing to strike Israel.


As we can tell by the way we named the wars, this was not the first time the Arab world postured to attack Israel. Their footprint was well known by 1967, and obvious in the intent (eminent attack). At the conclusion of hostilities, the unintentional consequence was the Occupation. The "Occupation" is not entirely wrong - in and by itself. It is the Martial Law administration of the "Occupied Territories" that has proven to be unlawful.

Since that time, more than four decades ago, the continuation of this sixty year old struggle has coursed through time almost unabated. It is very clear that, while some Arab nations have come to accept the 1948 decision, others (like Iran) have intensified their opposition. In recent decades, neither side has demonstrated a propensity for peace. If anything, the world has come to recognize a very deep flaw emanating from what was once the "Cradle of Civilization" and "Center of Learning." The Islamic era has utterly destroyed that image of itself in lieu of the frightening creature it has become in the 21st Century.

In my childhood I had come to admire the inhabitants of the Middle East. The stories of Ali Baba, Sinbad, and Scheherazade filled my mind with mystery and wonder. And the impression only grew grander as I learned of the Middle Eastern contribution to math and science. But in my twilight years, my experiences in Baghdad, Kabul, and Sanaa demonstrated to me that the gene pool of the legendary Arab and Islamic culture was all but gone.

Most Respectfully,
R