Selfishness of christianity & god's need

connermt said:

But isn't the desire of getting to heaven ultimate selfishness? Who does you getting to heaven benefit but yourself? No one else.

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When you're dead. So, to follow your logic why not be really kind and kill everyone you love so they go to heaven?

People of faith don't believe so they can get into heaven (as a general rule) that is an incidental consequence. People of faith, from my experience, simply acknowledge what they (and I) regard as fact. God exists. We are to live good lives but we are inherently fallible and cannot possibly hope to "earn" ourselves a spot in heaven. Quite rather it is a gift of grace to which we have no claim of right or expectation.

Addressing your question more directly: If we lived our lives pursuing this notion that we could earn our way into heaven we would live our lives trying to do as many good deeds as we could. So, the result of this effort would be a great positive rather than some ultimate selfishness.

Do you think people can fool God? If not then ultimate selfishness in trying to acheive heaven is DOA. If yes then you've demoted God to something not God.

connermt said:

Many of these people have also said that getting to heaven benefits god, because it pleases him. But why does a perfect being need to be pleased by an imperfect being?
Thoughts?

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No one knows the mind of God

connermt said:

Some people believe that. If heaven's so great, why not expedite the process to get your loved one there?

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My comment about killing everyone was a joke but to present the question without your tonghue firlmly planted in your cheek, and I detect none fo that, means you've really gone far afield.

Addressing the question directly: The simplerst answer is that murder is prohibitted by the decalogue.

connermt said:

But this does nothing to eliminate the selfishness of one's desire to get to heaven.

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Why is a desire to ge to heaven selfish? You've simply declared it to be true and offered no rational to support your claim.

How do you address the notion that if one is singlemindedly and selfishly driven by a desire to get into heaven the best way to do that is through lioving a sin free life and doing good deeds. Presuming this person lives such a life wouldn't we want as many people expressing that type of selfishness as we can find?

connermt said:

AZnd many christians claim selfishness is the ultimate/original sin.

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No, they don't. Original sin is the state into which we are born; not an act. We are fallible beings destined to sin. Selfishness can constitute a sin in itself that is a result of original sin but is not original sin itself.

As for the ultimate sin the NT declares the only unforgivable sin to be blasphemy against the holy spirit.

connermt said:

By that logic, the desire to get to heaven is sinful in of itself.

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Well, because that logic started with a false premise(s) we can disregard it entirely. You may wish to look these terms up and find out what they mean before trying to dicuss them.

connermt said:

And with that, there's no logical need for discussion with those people.

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You're half right.

I don't think trying to go to heaven is selfish. First, the gift of salvation is for everyone and it is something that is personal. All you are required to do is to accept it. Understand that no one can save someone else, each person has a choice to make whether to accept the gift of salvation or to reject it.

greatar4 said:

I don't think trying to go to heaven is selfish. First, the gift of salvation is for everyone and it is something that is personal. All you are required to do is to accept it. Understand that no one can save someone else, each person has a choice to make whether to accept the gift of salvation or to reject it.

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While this is a very clear description of salvation I do not think connermt will accept it.

And just by way of clarification, I in no way meant to suggest with my post the "good deeds" is how one gets into heaven. It is not. I meant to run with connermt's proposition and illustrate that it selfishness motivated one's desire for heaven the results of that desire would have to be good deeds. If we accept that as true... selfishness then becomes a pretty good thing. That or the original premise is flawed.