What is the truth?

tecoyah · Nov 29, 2017

In todays environment as created by our president it seems even video, audio, and documented fact can be questioned and called "Fake News". Trumps devoted followers then take is to be the real story which destroys the truth to them.
"“We don’t think that was my voice,” Mr. Trump told the senator, according to a person familiar with the conversation. Since then, Mr. Trump has continued to suggest that the tape that nearly upended his campaign was not actually him, according to three people close to the president."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/28/us/politics/trump-access-hollywood-tape.html
Trump even revisits his long dead and completely debunked birther conspiracy and some will get back on board.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-birther_us_5a1e1ce7e4b0dc52b02a22a4

For anyone who accepts this garbage....you are a big part of the problem and hurting my country.

Fitz · Nov 29, 2017

Distraction is the mother of politics.
If things are going bad change the narrative.... distract.

RiaRaeb · Nov 29, 2017

I do not fully understand the way in which US politics works, so I am asking a question I think relates to your post, excuse my ignorance.

In the UK we have Prime Ministers questions weekly in Parliament. The Prime Minister is asked questions by the leader of the opposition and other MP's. Whilst the PM may well dodge questions a british PM could not simply lie. They would be censored for lying to Parliament which is just about the worst thing an MP can be accused of. The PM is accountable to Parliament for what they say. Is there an equivalent in the US constitution similar to this? A way the President must tell the truth or suffer the consequences on a regular basis, as opposed to a special committee or impeachment. I guess I am asking what are the checks to keep any President "honest"?

Fitz · Nov 29, 2017

Hi Mate, don't risk equating lying with being economic with the truth. PMQ's is the TV outlet to showcase the message... the message doesn't have to contain any substance thus a reply does not have much meaning.

Blair and dossiers...???

tecoyah · Nov 29, 2017

RiaRaeb said:
I do not fully understand the way in which US politics works, so I am asking a question I think relates to your post, excuse my ignorance.

In the UK we have Prime Ministers questions weekly in Parliament. The Prime Minister is asked questions by the leader of the opposition and other MP's. Whilst the PM may well dodge questions a british PM could not simply lie. They would be censored for lying to Parliament which is just about the worst thing an MP can be accused of. The PM is accountable to Parliament for what they say. Is there an equivalent in the US constitution similar to this? A way the President must tell the truth or suffer the consequences on a regular basis, as opposed to a special committee or impeachment. I guess I am asking what are the checks to keep any President "honest"?

Unfortunately our Constitution does not have something that makes the President remain truthful...it has always been assumed until now and never been much of an issue (Nixon was but that was dealt with). Likely this fiasco will force an ammendment and other protections going forward which is a good and needed thing, Trump is about to be removed from office for other reasons regardless. Our congress (parliament) is unfortunately corrupted by party politics and had decided to cow tow and play along rather than act in the countries best interest.
Trump has been removing our "Checks" wherever he can whenever he can, whatever President follows him will have one hell of a lot or repair to do.

Fitz · Nov 29, 2017

tecoyah said:
Unfortunately our Constitution does not have something that makes the President remain truthful...[snip] Trump has been removing our "Checks" wherever he can whenever he can....

Is a sitting president still not open to a libel or slander suit?
If the narrative is blatantly untruthful surely there is a remedy in court?

RiaRaeb · Nov 29, 2017

Fitz said:
Hi Mate, don't risk equating lying with being economic with the truth. PMQ's is the TV outlet to showcase the message... the message doesn't have to contain any substance thus a reply does not have much meaning.

Blair and dossiers...???

Hi,
I would not suggest that PMq,s is completely effective at stopping untruths, but it does go someway to holding the PM and Mp's to account. Often it is not what they do say, but what they will not state!

It might not stop economical with the truth, but is often stops an outright lie.

I could not imagine Trump being ordered to apologise to the house!

Fitz · Nov 29, 2017

RiaRaeb said:
Hi,
I would not suggest that PMq,s is completely effective at stopping untruths, but it does go someway to holding the PM and Mp's to account. Often it is not what they do say, but what they will not state!

Yeah I agree with that. I guess the real work goes on in the committee stages behind the scenes. I think that the grillings they take strip away the bolocks and get to the heart of the matter..... unless you're Blair....

RiaRaeb said:
I could not imagine Trump being ordered to apologise to the house!

I wonder if they have such a mechanism in the states?

tecoyah · Nov 29, 2017

Fitz said:
Is a sitting president still not open to a libel or slander suit?
If the narrative is blatantly untruthful surely there is a remedy in court?

Trump can be held liable in civil court but not federally unless lying under oath. This is one of the reasons the anticipation if high for Meuller to finish investigating and get to charging. Once it gets to this stage Trump will be in a very tight Box...I hope he quits before then.

RiaRaeb · Nov 29, 2017

tecoyah said:
Unfortunately our Constitution does not have something that makes the President remain truthful...it has always been assumed until now and never been much of an issue (Nixon was but that was dealt with). Likely this fiasco will force an ammendment and other protections going forward which is a good and needed thing, Trump is about to be removed from office for other reasons regardless. Our congress (parliament) is unfortunately corrupted by party politics and had decided to cow tow and play along rather than act in the countries best interest.
Trump has been removing our "Checks" wherever he can whenever he can, whatever President follows him will have one hell of a lot or repair to do.

IMO Trump has made a mockery of the US, I am not arguing against his policies(they are not my business really) but the lies he tells and his deportment.

Good grief, just heard on TV Trump has been re tweeting tweets from Britain First a bunch of far right scum! I cannot believe it if true.

Fitz · Nov 29, 2017

tecoyah said:
Trump can be held liable in civil court but not federally unless lying under oath. This is one of the reasons the anticipation if high for Meuller to finish investigating and get to charging. Once it gets to this stage Trump will be in a very tight Box...I hope he quits before then.

Is there a time frame on the investigation?

Fitz · Nov 29, 2017

RiaRaeb said:
IMO Trump has made a mockery of the US, I am not arguing against his policies(they are not my business really) but the lies he tells and his deportment.

Good grief, just heard on TV Trump has been re tweeting tweets from Britain First a bunch of far right scum! I cannot believe it if true.

Seriously... have you got a link on that!!

Just found a link.....http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...ts-facebook-group-explained-bio-a8082076.html

tecoyah · Nov 29, 2017

Fitz said:
Is there a time frame on the investigation?

The timeframe has been speeding up lately, the Investigator has been doing this for 40+ years, is meticulous and crafty as well as our former FBI director. The enormous amount of detailed research into Trumps huge pile of decade long dirt and his massive ties to pretty much anything dirty make this very time consuming I'm sure, but Trumps family and White House are being called into Grand Jury already.
I would anticipate Trump being called in by February.

Fitz · Nov 29, 2017

tecoyah said:
.......The enormous amount of detailed research into Trumps huge pile of decade long dirt and his massive ties to pretty much anything dirty .......

Roy Cohn....

tecoyah · Nov 29, 2017

Fitz said:
Roy Cohn....

A mere paragraph in the middle of a very long book.

numan · Nov 29, 2017

RiaRaeb said:
In the UK we have Prime Ministers questions weekly in Parliament. The Prime Minister is asked questions by the leader of the opposition and other MP's. Whilst the PM may well dodge questions a british PM could not simply lie. They would be censored for lying to Parliament which is just about the worst thing an MP can be accused of. The PM is accountable to Parliament for what they say. Is there an equivalent in the US constitution similar to this?

Certainly not.

In addition to the American talent for hypocrisy which we inherited from the Mother Country, Americans have honed their native talent for lying, which is not only prevalent but is among the highest of the skills which Americans regard as virtues. The slick, hornswoggling, double-dealing Yankee Trader is the real symbol of the USA, not the eagle or Uncle Sam.
.

David · Nov 29, 2017

RiaRaeb said:
I do not fully understand the way in which US politics works, so I am asking a question I think relates to your post, excuse my ignorance.

In the UK we have Prime Ministers questions weekly in Parliament. The Prime Minister is asked questions by the leader of the opposition and other MP's. Whilst the PM may well dodge questions a british PM could not simply lie. They would be censored for lying to Parliament which is just about the worst thing an MP can be accused of. The PM is accountable to Parliament for what they say. Is there an equivalent in the US constitution similar to this? A way the President must tell the truth or suffer the consequences on a regular basis, as opposed to a special committee or impeachment. I guess I am asking what are the checks to keep any President "honest"?

The US actually has a prime minister (the vice president) but the only constitutional powers they have is to assume the presidency if the president is incapacitated or eliminated before the end of their term and break senate ties (technically Senate President, a separate office to the vice presidency but only held by the vice president so not really a practical difference). As a practical matter the vice president is the SecState's boss and the president's chief negotiator with Congress. However as these powers are traditional rather than codified, there is no legal standard. I wish the practical powers of the vice president were codified, it would make them subject to congressional and judicial oversight and remove those powers from the president.

Ralph47 · Nov 29, 2017

numan said:
Certainly not.

In addition to the American talent for hypocrisy which we inherited from the Mother Country, Americans have honed their native talent for lying, which is not only prevalent but is among the highest of the skills which Americans regard as virtues. The slick, hornswoggling, double-dealing Yankee Trader is the real symbol of the USA, not the eagle or Uncle Sam.
.

Check this out for some actual truthfulness for a refreshing change:

\\https://open.spotify.com/album/2JGV6d5c11pBkEBvz1AZzW

Sallyally · Dec 2, 2017

Ralph47 said:
Check this out for some actual truthfulness for a refreshing change:

\\https://open.spotify.com/album/2JGV6d5c11pBkEBvz1AZzW

Couldn't listen to all of that. It's a trifle saccharine.

Ralph47 · Dec 2, 2017

Sallyally said:
Couldn't listen to all of that. It's a trifle saccharine.

They haven't used saccharine it years. Must be Aspartame or Splenda or Stevia. :smug:

But seriously:

What is the truth?

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