3 Medals, No Money.

Apr 2009
1,943
5
Disunited Queendom
#21
All I know is that I sleep much better at night, knowing that there are American soldiers fighting for us in Afghanistan. I don't care how they do it, I'm just happy there is a presence of something solid in a very chaotic and explosive world.
Personally, i'd feel safer if those soldiers were in a position to defend their own people.
 
#22
One in three homeless people in the United States are War Veterans.

Discuss implications.
First of all this is false.

While homeless veterans exist and have always been in society it is not one in three.

Veterans in general are somewhat less likely to be homeless than their civilian peers. The militar encourages and teaches education , self reliance , strong work ethics. These are qualities which homeless people tend to be lacking in. At the least these are qualities which people who are homeless for an extended period of time lack. Anyone can certainly end up homeless for a variety of reasons. I was homeless my self for a couple of months and forced to move back in with mom until I got back on my feet. So one question ignored by many is: just who is homeless?

That is not to say that all veterans are industrious and wealthy , certainly the military has it's share of people who have bad luck or are simply bums. But the odds are a veteran is less likely to end up on the streets.

The facts are that veterans are stereotyped and mis-characterized worse than most groups. They generally have fewer criminals in their population fewer drug or alcohol problems lower divorce numbers. Although yes veterans can suffer from these problems like anyone else , just not as often in a statistical sense. Veterans tend to be the most upwardly mobile succesfl and stable members of society.

Stats on homeless and the % of veterans are based on ridiculous studies which take people at their word. In other words a researcher asks 20 homeless people if they are veterans and gets a bunch of positive responses. This ignores the natural tendency of people to lie to make themselves look better or just to tell people what they wish to hear.

Worst case scenario: the percentage of homeless people who are veterans will be close to he percentage of veterans among the general population. Today with the rapid passing away of the WWII generation less than one in 7 American males is a veteran. And that refers to any type of veterans meaning anyone who served even if just in peacetime. War veterans will be a much smaller percentage.
 
Apr 2009
1,943
5
Disunited Queendom
#23
First of all this is false.

While homeless veterans exist and have always been in society it is not one in three.

Veterans in general are somewhat less likely to be homeless than their civilian peers. The militar encourages and teaches education , self reliance , strong work ethics. These are qualities which homeless people tend to be lacking in. At the least these are qualities which people who are homeless for an extended period of time lack. Anyone can certainly end up homeless for a variety of reasons. I was homeless my self for a couple of months and forced to move back in with mom until I got back on my feet. So one question ignored by many is: just who is homeless?

That is not to say that all veterans are industrious and wealthy , certainly the military has it's share of people who have bad luck or are simply bums. But the odds are a veteran is less likely to end up on the streets.

The facts are that veterans are stereotyped and mis-characterized worse than most groups. They generally have fewer criminals in their population fewer drug or alcohol problems lower divorce numbers. Although yes veterans can suffer from these problems like anyone else , just not as often in a statistical sense. Veterans tend to be the most upwardly mobile succesfl and stable members of society.

Stats on homeless and the % of veterans are based on ridiculous studies which take people at their word. In other words a researcher asks 20 homeless people if they are veterans and gets a bunch of positive responses. This ignores the natural tendency of people to lie to make themselves look better or just to tell people what they wish to hear.

Worst case scenario: the percentage of homeless people who are veterans will be close to he percentage of veterans among the general population. Today with the rapid passing away of the WWII generation less than one in 7 American males is a veteran. And that refers to any type of veterans meaning anyone who served even if just in peacetime. War veterans will be a much smaller percentage.
Actually, it's not false.

US Department of Veterans Affairs said:
On any given day, as many as 250'000 veterans (male and female) are living on the streets or in shelters, and perhaps twice as many experience homelessness at some point during the course of a year.
VA said:
The number of homeless male and female Vietnam era veterans is greater than the number of service persons who died during that war.
National Coalition for Homeless Veterans said:
More than 67% [of vets] served [the US] for at least three years and 33% were stationed in a war zone.
Peter Dougherty said:
Traditionally, what happens to you after you leave has not been the concern of [the] service.
Here are some interweb sites to discover:
www.va.gov
www.nchv.org

Some light reading:
Jocelyn Stewart "From the Ranks to the Streets".
Los Angeles Times, 29 May, 2004.
 
#24
Actually, it's not false






Here are some interweb sites to discover:
www.va.gov
www.nchv.org

Some light reading:
Jocelyn Stewart "From the Ranks to the Streets".
Los Angeles Times, 29 May, 2004.
Yes in fact it is false.

The V.A. exaggerates any and all problems involving veterans because it is in the organizations best interest to do so. The V.A. has in fact , on occasion , created back door loopholes to let non veterans into the organization. They are simply not reliable.

The V.A. is not part of the military and has no method of researching which homeless people are veterans and which ones are merely claiming to be veterans.

The claim of 250,000 homeless veterans on the street is pulled out of thin air and the V.A. did absolutely no research to arrive at this figure.
 
Apr 2009
1,943
5
Disunited Queendom
#25
Yes in fact it is false.

The V.A. exaggerates any and all problems involving veterans because it is in the organizations best interest to do so. The V.A. has in fact , on occasion , created back door loopholes to let non veterans into the organization. They are simply not reliable.

The V.A. is not part of the military and has no method of researching which homeless people are veterans and which ones are merely claiming to be veterans.

The claim of 250,000 homeless veterans on the street is pulled out of thin air and the V.A. did absolutely no research to arrive at this figure.
Naturally, you have several intellectual sources lined up to prove this statement. Correct?

You'll notice that i quoted and suggested various sources on the matter. I trust you'll extend us all the same courtesy.
 
#26
Naturally, you have several intellectual sources lined up to prove this statement. Correct?

You'll notice that i quoted and suggested various sources on the matter. I trust you'll extend us all the same courtesy.
You obviously did not notice I was addressing your sources and they back up what I stated.

No where in your source will you find objective empirical researc which is verified through records.

Everyone who ever served in the military has a records on file. The financial and medical records are held in confidence. However the personnel records are available to the public. Army and Air Force records are stored at the St. Louis military records depot. Navy and Marine Corps records at the Portsmouth Maryland Naval records base.

The the sources you named made their estimates they did so out of thin air without any check of any records or even without any counting of such homeless people and the source for that IS your source.
 
Apr 2009
1,943
5
Disunited Queendom
#27
You obviously did not notice I was addressing your sources and they back up what I stated.

No where in your source will you find objective empirical researc which is verified through records.

Everyone who ever served in the military has a records on file. The financial and medical records are held in confidence. However the personnel records are available to the public. Army and Air Force records are stored at the St. Louis military records depot. Navy and Marine Corps records at the Portsmouth Maryland Naval records base.

The the sources you named made their estimates they did so out of thin air without any check of any records or even without any counting of such homeless people and the source for that IS your source.
You still haven't given an estimate on the "actual" number.

Now prove conclusively that they pulled these figures out of thin air. Saying so and saying they have not based it on empirical evidence is verbal expression, not proof. You have suggested a hypothetical situation, in which the figures are made up and stated that there is no cited empitical evidence. This means that the stats MAY not be based on empirical evidence. You have not yet proven that it ALMOST CERTAINLY isn't.

I'm sure you realise the difference between circumstancial evidence and hard evidence?

I'm perfectly prepared to agree with you. Only first, you must give me reason to do so.
 
Jul 2009
5,844
449
Port St. Lucie
#28
One in three homeless people in the United States are War Veterans.

Discuss implications.
I find it disgusting. I, like most Americans, am quite militant having grown up in a martial-state like America. I may not be as cold or hard as a Somali or Palestinian as war at home is a rare thing but I do have a healthy respect for our warriors and any veterans that have served with honor. We should be hailing our heros as heros and showering them with gifts and prase, not using them and then throwing them away. :mad:

Might makes right and peace thru strength may be our maxim but our gov't seems to care little for the people who make us strong.