Americans Shut Up!

Dec 4, 2009
4
0
#1
Hello,

This is the craziest thing ever.

The AMERICAN HEALTH CARE DEBATE IS A CIRCUS..

Some americans call me a canadian, "socialism".

But how do they come to that?

BECAUSE I GET FREE HEALTH CARE...???

Wow... So because I get FREE care, and you pay $$$$.. I am the one with the issue..

You tell me...

Bozonessinc
 

myp

Site Founder
Jan 14, 2009
5,841
50
#2
I think you are really generalizing here- all Americans would not call you such. Personally, I believe your system is partly socialist, but that does not mean you are. Also, you do not get free health care- you pay for it too, just through taxes and inflation.
 
Mar 15, 2009
369
1
#3
I think you are really generalizing here- all Americans would not call you such. Personally, I believe your system is partly socialist, but that does not mean you are. Also, you do not get free health care- you pay for it too, just through taxes and inflation.
So then wouldn't any system that collects taxes to better people overall be partly socialist? To me it would seem that our paying a portion of our taxes to cover everyone's healthcare would be the same as Americans paying a portion of their taxes to fund the military - every American can benefit from having a strong military (well, maybe... but even if you don't agree with that I think you get what I'm trying to get at). The same could be said for infrastructure, etc.
 
Mar 24, 2009
2,751
6
Undisclosed
#4
So then wouldn't any system that collects taxes to better people overall be partly socialist? To me it would seem that our paying a portion of our taxes to cover everyone's healthcare would be the same as Americans paying a portion of their taxes to fund the military - every American can benefit from having a strong military (well, maybe... but even if you don't agree with that I think you get what I'm trying to get at). The same could be said for infrastructure, etc.
I think I see your point. It all comes down to if anything happens someone has to pay for it somewhere. Then comes, what are we willing to pay for? I don't really know anymore.:confused:
 

myp

Site Founder
Jan 14, 2009
5,841
50
#5
So then wouldn't any system that collects taxes to better people overall be partly socialist? To me it would seem that our paying a portion of our taxes to cover everyone's healthcare would be the same as Americans paying a portion of their taxes to fund the military - every American can benefit from having a strong military (well, maybe... but even if you don't agree with that I think you get what I'm trying to get at). The same could be said for infrastructure, etc.
Oh course it means that. I admit the army runs under a form of socialism and it is probably the only form of socialism I support at the Federal level.

By the way, nice to see you back Delta :)
 

deanhills

Secretary of State
Mar 15, 2009
2,187
2
#6
I think you are really generalizing here- all Americans would not call you such. Personally, I believe your system is partly socialist, but that does not mean you are. Also, you do not get free health care- you pay for it too, just through taxes and inflation.
Not only that, Canadians make personal contributions on a monthly basis to their Medical Insurance. Dental care is excluded, Canadians have to pay for their own dental care, unless you want to take out insurance for that too, or it can be provided through your employer, but that would also come at a price. There is a total misconception in the United States for obvious political reasons. Worst part is that one has to get prescriptions for about any medication you can think off, that means you have to see a doctor etc. etc. I think if you balance the two you will come out equal.
 
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Dec 11, 2009
119
0
Canada
#7
I wouldn't call it socialist. We're in a minority government right now so the Conservative Party has to have support from other parties to pass a bill. Personally, I definitely believe that Americans would really benefit from having basic free health care for everyone. I like how Obama's getting away from making policies which will make the rich richer and the poor poorer. With basic health care, then the less fortunate have one less thing to worry about, and they in turn could prosper, therefore, having more taxpayers.
 

Dirk

Anarchist
Apr 27, 2009
1,943
5
Disunited Queendom
#8
If the US got a so-called "Canadian Style" system (an Australian system is better, though not my ideal), the Government would be supported in its decision by the auto industry, which is losing a lot of money due to the current US system.

But i doubt it will happen any time soon.
 
Dec 11, 2009
119
0
Canada
#9
I found it funny that Stephen Harper called an election in June/July of '08 and the election finished at least 2-3 months earlier than the American one.
 

Dirk

Anarchist
Apr 27, 2009
1,943
5
Disunited Queendom
#10
I found it funny that Stephen Harper called an election in June/July of '08 and the election finished at least 2-3 months earlier than the American one.
In the US, it matters less who is in power. So they have to make more of a fuss.

:rolleyes:
 

deanhills

Secretary of State
Mar 15, 2009
2,187
2
#12
Personally, I definitely believe that Americans would really benefit from having basic free health care for everyone.
I believe everyone is in agreement with that, it's just the modus operandi that is the problem. People cannot find a solution that makes everyone happy, and the one that will make everyone happy is one where there won't be lots of taxes and extra cost involved. So Obama is using a stage show to make people believe that his proposal will actually save people money.
 
Dec 27, 2009
20
0
#14
Hello,

This is the craziest thing ever.

The AMERICAN HEALTH CARE DEBATE IS A CIRCUS..

Some americans call me a canadian, "socialism".

But how do they come to that?

BECAUSE I GET FREE HEALTH CARE...???

Wow... So because I get FREE care, and you pay $$$$.. I am the one with the issue..

You tell me...

Bozonessinc
Americans are the ones with the problem because they can't sort out free health care for citizens, however, Canada and UK, and I don't know about other countries, can - so that makes us more superior in the Health Care system!
 
Mar 24, 2009
2,751
6
Undisclosed
#15
Americans are the ones with the problem because they can't sort out free health care for citizens, however, Canada and UK, and I don't know about other countries, can - so that makes us more superior in the Health Care system!
It is not free when "someone" has to pay for it. I think the people who use it should pay for. Some people think "someone else" should pay for it. Same could be said for houses,cars, or even planes. If I need need it give it to me and make you pay for it.:p
 

myp

Site Founder
Jan 14, 2009
5,841
50
#16
Americans are the ones with the problem because they can't sort out free health care for citizens, however, Canada and UK, and I don't know about other countries, can - so that makes us more superior in the Health Care system!
Is there a correlation between universal health care and a "superior" system? The UK and Canada both have flaws in their system- among them slower innovation and problems with sustainability (especially financially) over the long run. The United States is currently the world's leader in health care innovation and with less regulations and more competition prices would also be lower here. With shorter wait times and a more efficient and effective system, I think a free market system would clearly pull through as "superior" should the politicians give it a chance.
 

Dirk

Anarchist
Apr 27, 2009
1,943
5
Disunited Queendom
#17
I don't know about other countries
This isn't patriotism speaking, but the German system is the most effective.

:D

Although my own ideal - an LHS - would blow 'em all out of the water. In my opinion only, of course.

:giggle:
 
Jan 2, 2010
1
0
Barbados
#18
I think it is necesary to think about what society do you want? What keeps it healthy and functional? Health care is vital to the economy, not only the cost of it, but the need for a healthy society so that families are strong and function, business are strong because employees can function. If the market works well then this shows up in competitive prices, good health care. America has expensive health care and lower health results than other developed countries. something is wrong and the market is not working right. Therefore it has to be corrected. Is the health market correcting itself, not in the past 50 years. Then someone has to ensure that it does correct itself, hence government intervention.To do what, make sure it is affordable, available for all, and of quality. How do you do it - introduce competition - public option, remove the exemption from anti-trust requirements, stop discrimination against certain groups; stop dropping coverage for pre-exisiting conditions or emergent conditions; control costs. Based on that what has Obama done, some, not all. What about costs, controlling spiralling profits while reducing coverage, makes costs worse. Find abuses, find duplications, find efficiencies, then true costs are obvious, then as a country decide what you can and cannot afford. Your status quo does not make intelligent sense
 
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deanhills

Secretary of State
Mar 15, 2009
2,187
2
#19
Americans are the ones with the problem because they can't sort out free health care for citizens, however, Canada and UK, and I don't know about other countries, can - so that makes us more superior in the Health Care system!
For a "runny nose" maybe Canada and the UK are ahead, but for a serious disease that cannot be catered for in Canada and the UK because of lack of funds, all of those guys seem to be visiting the US. So in my eyes, the US are winning! For how long however is an open question. My only hope is that most of the medical services in the US are privately owned. Capitalism is very much entrenched in the medical services, for now anyways.
 

Dirk

Anarchist
Apr 27, 2009
1,943
5
Disunited Queendom
#20
For a "runny nose" maybe Canada and the UK are ahead, but for a serious disease that cannot be catered for in Canada and the UK because of lack of funds, all of those guys seem to be visiting the US. So in my eyes, the US are winning!
I don't believe there isn't a serious disease not dealt with in the UK? I have no information on Canada.

One thing, whatever you think of it, philosophically (for a lot of it not much in my case), Cuba has an amazing healthcare system. In that it provides for everyone, is at the head of new medicines, and great technologies like biotechnology. They actually pay for a lot of it through trips to other countries to provide high quality healthcare - the countries, in return, to economic or political favours to Cuba.

For how long however is an open question. My only hope is that most of the medical services in the US are privately owned. Capitalism is very much entrenched in the medical services, for now anyways.
You think businesses should own healthcare?

I believe in a non-state LHS.
 

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