Banning Guns- it does not work

Jan 2009
5,841
50
#1
The debate on banning guns heated up once more after the election of President Obama. I am against such action, as I believe it is against the 2nd amendment and I think people should have the right to defend themselves.

Not only that, but I think banning guns won't actually reduce crime because it is people that kill people, not guns. Murderers will just find other things to use and at the same time crime rates will go up because a gun black market is bound to rise up.

England banned guns and they are seeing crime rates go up (same was the story with Australia.) Now, some are proposing anti-stab knives: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6501720.ece

How far does this go? When will people realize that this sort of thing will not stop crime, it will only further it?
 
Mar 2009
2,751
6
Undisclosed
#2
If I wanted to rob a house I would love knowing that house was unarmed. Around here most homes have guns. (I slept with one of mine a couple of nights ago) And many people carry one when they go out. Some legally and others maybe not so legal.

If someone starts shooting people where people are armed the slaughter can be stopped before the police can even start to the scene.
 
Jan 2009
5,841
50
#3
If I wanted to rob a house I would love knowing that house was unarmed. Around here most homes have guns. (I slept with one of mine a couple of nights ago) And many people carry one when they go out. Some legally and others maybe not so legal.

If someone starts shooting people where people are armed the slaughter can be stopped before the police can even start to the scene.
Exactly and if guns were banned, the criminals would still have them through the black market and the good citizens wouldn't, which could actually lead to more deaths.
 
Mar 2009
2,187
2
#4
but I think banning guns won't actually reduce crime because it is people that kill people, not guns.
Exactly my take on it too. The real problem is with society. There has to be ills in it that won't be fixed with more legislation. Perhaps people need to take care of people in a much better place, and the present system is not supporting that?
 
Jan 2009
5,841
50
#5
Perhaps people need to take care of people in a much better place, and the present system is not supporting that?
What do you mean by that? I really think that the best way to decrease crime and murder is to improve education and prosperity. There are many arguments on how to do that, but that is for another thread (my argument is of course through the free market- others may suggest the government.) The bottom line though, is that prohibitions have never, are not, and will never work.
 
Jan 2013
316
1
Delaware
#6
I don't think ive ever seen any stats that could even come close to proving gun crimes are committed more often with legal weapons. It's always stolen guns, smuggled guns, e.g. Like somebody said, guns don't kill people, people kill people. The vast majority of gun crimes and accidents are committed by guns obtained illegally or careless homeowners.
The bottom line though, is that prohibitions have never, are not, and will never work.
Vry true - alcohol, guns, drugs, sanctions, e.g. - they never work.
 
Mar 2009
422
3
Florida, USA
#7
I absolutely hate the things. I really think a lot of children are killed to make up for the few people who actually successfully defend themselves with guns.

That aside, I would like to know why it is all or nothing. At least automatic weapons should be banned. Unless you think it's OK for someone to 'defend' themselves from a robber by killing everybody in sight.

I have to conceded that when the concealed carry law went through in Florida, the crime rate went down. It seems you don't really have to have a gun, you just have to let the criminals think you might.

But now Miami is the most dangerous large city in the country. The safest? New York!
 
Mar 2009
422
3
Florida, USA
#8
I don't think ive ever seen any stats that could even come close to proving gun crimes are committed more often with legal weapons. It's always stolen guns, smuggled guns, e.g. Like somebody said, guns don't kill people, people kill people. The vast majority of gun crimes and accidents are committed by guns obtained illegally or careless homeowners.


Vry true - alcohol, guns, drugs, sanctions, e.g. - they never work.
'Stolen' from legal gunowners. One thing you do when you own is possibly provide one for a criminal.

Guns kill people when they are in the hands of children. Not gang member type children, but your five-year-old that has no idea what it does. Then it isn't the person, it's the presence of the gun. Unless you want to say that if your five-year-old kills his mother, it's reallly the father who bought the gun that's the murderer.
 
Mar 2009
2,751
6
Undisclosed
#9
'Stolen' from legal gunowners. One thing you do when you own is possibly provide one for a criminal.

Guns kill people when they are in the hands of children. Not gang member type children, but your five-year-old that has no idea what it does. Then it isn't the person, it's the presence of the gun. Unless you want to say that if your five-year-old kills his mother, it's reallly the father who bought the gun that's the murderer.
There has never been a day in my life there was not at least 3 guns in my house. Guns were never locked up so they were useless. I was taught never to touch a gun unless I was shooting with an adult. Guns were just there like many other things in the house that I left alone. My two daughters never bothered my guns. They showed no interest in them at all. But when you make a big deal about guns children will take notice. Oh it is a GUN!!!!:eek: But I was taught "respect". I don't see a lot of that in children today. I respected my "elders". I respected other people's property. So maybe we do need to just get rid of anything dangerous. Guns, knives, matches or anything sharp. I have heard of people having to hide their car keys from a child. Who is in charge anyway?
 
Mar 2009
422
3
Florida, USA
#10
I was absolutely forbidden to go into one of the hollows near our house. Of course, my friends and I went there a couple of times a week every summer. When we were grown, my best friend and I and our mothers were having lunch. My friend and I started telling a story about something silly that we did while playing down there. Our mothers were stunned. They had been sure we had never gone down there, and had never really been intersted.

And there are lots of statistics about children and guns.
 
Mar 2009
2,751
6
Undisclosed
#11
I was absolutely forbidden to go into one of the hollows near our house. Of course, my friends and I went there a couple of times a week every summer. When we were grown, my best friend and I and our mothers were having lunch. My friend and I started telling a story about something silly that we did while playing down there. Our mothers were stunned. They had been sure we had never gone down there, and had never really been intersted.

And there are lots of statistics about children and guns.
And there are lots of so called statistics about people that just let their children grow up like weeds. You should never have anything dangerous in a home with disrespectful children that are raising themselves. But they will get their own gun in time.
 
Jan 2013
316
1
Delaware
#12
'Stolen' from legal gunowners. One thing you do when you own is possibly provide one for a criminal.
Most stolen guns are actually bought overseas, smuggled or from the black market. I don't think many criminals would be dumb enough to steal a gun from a gunowner. A gun is no different than a knife, car or any other tool capable of doing harm. They don't do anything on their own.

Guns kill people when they are in the hands of children. Not gang member type children, but your five-year-old that has no idea what it does. Then it isn't the person, it's the presence of the gun. Unless you want to say that if your five-year-old kills his mother, it's reallly the father who bought the gun that's the murderer.
It's absolutely the fault of the parents. First of all, if I had kids, I would make damn sure they understood its no toy.

Second of all, it's the owners responsibility to keep the gun in a secure and childproof location. Or keep it unloaded and safe.

The police would seem to agree as well. When we have these accidental shootings with children - guess who gets the blame? The owners nearly always get arrested and charged with neglect.
 
Mar 2009
422
3
Florida, USA
#13
Keeping a gun in a secure and childproof location means that it won't be available if needed for protection. So why have one?

Isn't the argument that 'guns don't kill, people do' an argument for gun control? The laws aren't really against gun, but against their ownership by people. After all, we can't punish or control the guns. We talk about 'illegal drugs', but they aren't illegal in and of themselves. We just regulate who uses them.

And gun theft is one of the ways that guns become illegal.

There is a big difference between a knife and a gun, since a gun is deadly from a distance. One can kill without being close enough to put oneself in danger. That's a big difference.
 
Mar 2009
2,751
6
Undisclosed
#14
Keeping a gun in a secure and childproof location means that it won't be available if needed for protection. So why have one?

Isn't the argument that 'guns don't kill, people do' an argument for gun control? The laws aren't really against gun, but against their ownership by people. After all, we can't punish or control the guns. We talk about 'illegal drugs', but they aren't illegal in and of themselves. We just regulate who uses them.

And gun theft is one of the ways that guns become illegal.

There is a big difference between a knife and a gun, since a gun is deadly from a distance. One can kill without being close enough to put oneself in danger. That's a big difference.
I have been shot and I have been cut. I would rather be shot.
 
Mar 2009
416
0
Philippines
#15
Honestly, gun ban doesn't really work.
In the previous elections that we have, there's always violence that are gun related.
From my point of view, they only implement this to get more punishment for those who breaks the law.
 
Mar 2009
2,187
2
#16
Honestly, gun ban doesn't really work.
In the previous elections that we have, there's always violence that are gun related.
From my point of view, they only implement this to get more punishment for those who breaks the law.
Agreed. They need to go to the root cause. Sometimes it is like religion, guns (as part of violence) becomes like a template of a given society and perpetuates itself from generation to generation.
 
Mar 2009
416
0
Philippines
#17
Agreed. They need to go to the root cause. Sometimes it is like religion, guns (as part of violence) becomes like a template of a given society and perpetuates itself from generation to generation.
Well... I can say gun is a part of ones life...
There's even a news here that a soldier was accidentally shot by his 6 year old son when he was teaching him how to hold an use a gun. Unluckily, the father died... T_T
 

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