Israel/Palestine - Two State Solution?

Apr 2009
1,943
Disunited Queendom
Essentially, the question is this:

Which settlement would you prefer between Israel and Palestine?

Please explain why, in a post.
 
Apr 2009
1,943
Disunited Queendom
I'll give a brief explanation of the 1947 plan:

In 1947, the UN Partition Plan divided Palestine three ways. One part went to Israel, one to Palestine, while Jerusalem was held separately, under international control. At the time, the Arab nations and Palestinian leadership didn't agree, although it was accepted by the Jewish community.

 
Apr 2009
1,943
Disunited Queendom
When Israel claimed independence in 1948, it resulted in a war with the neighbouring countries, which Israel won. This resulted in the Green Line Agreement.

 
Apr 2009
1,943
Disunited Queendom
The 1949 Armistice Agreement, or Green Line, held until 1967, when Egypt provoked Israel, eliciting the Six Day War. Israel took the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights and the Sinai Peninsula.

 
Apr 2009
1,943
Disunited Queendom
There are several variations of single state solutions.

* Israel takes all

* Palestine takes all

* Twin regime federalist state

* Unitary state

There is also the "no-state solution", or Allon Plan, which was suggested by Israel in the 60s. It divides Palestine between Israel and Jordan. The West Bank is partitioned between Israel and Jordan, while the Gaza Strip is literally halved, with Israel taking the Egyptian border (presumably to ensure ease of blockade, if necessary).

 
Jun 2010
8
I have always been and i'll keep saying that Israel does nothing wrong and Israel should stay with her borders as it now !
 
Apr 2009
1,943
Disunited Queendom
I have always been and i'll keep saying that Israel does nothing wrong and Israel should stay with her borders as it now !
Haha, while it's appreciated, i cannot agree.

There have been atrocities committed by the Israeli state that i simply refuse to condone, such as the bombing of UN schools in Gaza. In my opinion, it is wrong to say that the Israeli state has done nothing wrong.

I think, if i am not mistaken, that under international law, land taken by defensive conquest is just. And since in each instance, Israel was defending itself - except in the case of so many of these settlements - it counts. However, more than anything, I want to see peace in the region. I don't want to see so many hurt, starving, and homeless. I appreciate Israel does all it can to get aid to the regions in need (the aid from the flotilla has now been delivered, for anyone that's interested) but a solution to the conflict has to come soon, if we're to avoid more lives being lost. I think that will require compromise. I'm willing to do that, for peace, freedom, and the chance for people to build their lives without constant threat.

We also need to emasculate groups such as Hamas, by finding a settlement acceptable to as many as possible.
 
Jun 2010
23
Cleveland Ohio
Personally I would like to see a "Twin regime federalist state" Dont think the Isrealis would ever let it happen. That is a tough situation having 3 religions holy lands in the same area.
 
Jul 2009
5,879
Port St. Lucie
Haha, while it's appreciated, i cannot agree.

There have been atrocities committed by the Israeli state that i simply refuse to condone, such as the bombing of UN schools in Gaza. In my opinion, it is wrong to say that the Israeli state has done nothing wrong.

I think, if i am not mistaken, that under international law, land taken by defensive conquest is just. And since in each instance, Israel was defending itself - except in the case of so many of these settlements - it counts. However, more than anything, I want to see peace in the region. I don't want to see so many hurt, starving, and homeless. I appreciate Israel does all it can to get aid to the regions in need (the aid from the flotilla has now been delivered, for anyone that's interested) but a solution to the conflict has to come soon, if we're to avoid more lives being lost. I think that will require compromise. I'm willing to do that, for peace, freedom, and the chance for people to build their lives without constant threat.

We also need to emasculate groups such as Hamas, by finding a settlement acceptable to as many as possible.
Here's what Israel needs to do. It needs to abandon all settlements in the West Bank and take down the wall. Free Palestine as I call it is effectively a state now with a stable economy, strong gov't and military and it's made more efforts for peace then Israel, there's nothing to fear from them at this point. In Gaza, allow for the free flow of goods, aid and trade, with a ban on weapons and Israeli oversight (but no control beyond preventing militarization) of the distribution and use of goods. Maintain the blockade/siege and continue bombing smuggling tunnels to prevent the flow of weapons. With civilian aid/trade open, Hamas can't claim attacks on civilians. Hamas would also likely oppose Israeli oversight but with no control on the civilian use of goods and no stopping of aid/trade, Israel can shift blame for the Humanitarian crises from themselves to Hamas. This will legitimize the Israeli position, build support for Israel among the Arabs, repair relations with Turkey and weaken Hamas' support leading to their eventual fall.

Once the Palestinian Authority has regained control of all Palestine, they'll have the capability and international support to unilaterally declare independence from Israel. So long as they mobilize their military in a strictly defensive fashion, recognize Israel as a legitimate state and establish a constituently backed democratic-republic prior to independence, they'll get away with it with little more then Israeli grumbling. Jerusalem will still be an issue but a minor 1 relatively speaking.
 
Jun 2010
6
O Jerusalem, Take Heed

Essentially, the question is this:

Which settlement would you prefer between Israel and Palestine?

Please explain why, in a post.
The only chance for peace is a two state solution. Both the Palestinian state and the Israeli state need to have a seaport and continuous borders. The neighbouring muslim nations should think about granting some land to the Palestinians. However, now we are getting to the crucial part, which is Jerusalem. Jerusalem needs to be either wholly in Palestine or wholly in Israel. A "Berlin Wall" will not work, there would be continued friction and threats of war. Both Israelis and Palestinians are religious, so they should be open to an unconventional solution:

http://www.flyingbuffaloes7.net/keluar9.html

O Jerusalem, take heed. The current situation in Israel is untenable; there is an unending conflict between the Palestinians and the Jews. Jewish inhabitants distrust the Palestinians, and vice versa. The age-old struggle between them has cost many lives, much hardship and untold sorrow. The conflict has generated tremendous anger, hatred and distrust – forcing them to live under a single umbrella has proven to be a formula for unending friction.

. . .

Jerusalem is a major sticking point in regard to a two-state solution, which affects not only the parties, but peace in the region. Both sides have long-standing reasons to be inflexible regarding the city. Both sides have long historical, cultural and religious reasons for their intransigence regarding Jerusalem. This has led many people to insist that the two-state solution have a shared Jerusalem. That is, severing Jerusalem in twain, part to one nation and part to another, or granting co-ownership of the city to both nation states. Are either of these proposals wise?

The twentieth century saw what happened when secular powers divided up Berlin into sections. The situation was so bellicose that the Berlin Wall was erected to section off the city. For decades, the Wall divided the people and caused tremendous misery until it was finally demolished.

The same mentality of erecting “Berlin Walls” is very active in modern-day Israel, as is seen by the walled-off sections of the West Bank. Fencing off sections of Berlin did not work, and it should not be encouraged in Jerusalem. Further, if there are national borders running through the city of Jerusalem, it will guarantee that there will be continued friction and bloodshed in the city.

It is understood that neither party wants to relinquish all rights to Jerusalem, but, in reality, to have lasting peace in the area, is there any other choice? I suggest that there is not. Many centuries of conflict support my position. Therefore, in my opinion, Jerusalem should either be wholly within the nation of Israel or wholly within the newly created Palestinian state. To accomplish this, one side or the other would necessarily have to relinquish Jerusalem voluntarily, if it is to be settled amicably. It should be realized that the side that vacates Jerusalem should be amply compensated for it when boundaries for the two newly-formed nation states are drawn.

Clearly, both parties’ claims to Jerusalem are heavily based on religious grounds. If neither side will voluntarily relinquish the city, then, after solemn prayers, a lot should be cast over which nation state will house Jerusalem. Those who sincerely believe in the Divine should accept that the lot will result in the Divine’s will being carried out.

Amitakh Stanford
 
Jun 2010
157
All settlements gone, back to 1967 borders, Jerusalem is classified as not in any territory of any nation anywhere…Ever. It is an International City. Support from Western Security council members, must cease and desist totally. As long as the US refuses to take any measure against the Israeli misconduct in the UN, along with many nations feeding untold sums of money and military arms to the Isrealis nothing will ever be solved.
 

mvr

Jun 2010
13
I think there is too much bad blood between the two communities and they cant live amongst each other. The only solution is to physically seperate them...but who do they move? There is no easy solution to this ever lasting problem.
 
Jun 2010
157
The common American wants are to displace the Palestinians further. So, much like Afghanistan their idea of the solution is another dose of the junk that caused it in the first place...
 
Jul 2009
5,879
Port St. Lucie
The common American wants are to displace the Palestinians further. So, much like Afghanistan their idea of the solution is another dose of the junk that caused it in the first place...


I can think and speak for myself, thank you. ;)
 
Jun 2010
157
The narcissism of the average American always illicit this response. It doesn’t change the reality of the statement one iota.
 
Jul 2009
5,879
Port St. Lucie
The narcissism of the average American always illicit this response. It doesn?t change the reality of the statement one iota.


In my experience, my compatriots want to leave Israel to rot (including the Jews no less). It seems a few Bible Belt, types that rant on and on about stuff they themselves associate with (from homosexuality to terrorism) that keep calling for us to support Israel.
 
Jan 2010
172
Miami
I often like to compare the Israel/Palestine situation to the founding of Colonial America. There were people we displaced in founding this country yet a lot of the peopl who argue over Israel and Palestine don't step into any territory dealing with the situation of native Americans. The moral solution might be to return the land, the reality is, you aren't going to get people to agree to such a radical solution. Yet neither can deal with a compromise. That's what makes conflicts like these so damned hard. It doesn't help that one political party has the destruction of Israel in their charter or that the other keeps expanding their settlements in disputed territory.
 
Jun 2010
157
In my experience, my compatriots want to leave Israel to rot (including the Jews no less). It seems a few Bible Belt, types that rant on and on about stuff they themselves associate with (from homosexuality to terrorism) that keep calling for us to support Israel.
Oh yeah, publicaly express that opinon anywhere in this nation. Soap box and bull horn. See what happens.
 
Jul 2009
5,879
Port St. Lucie
Oh yeah, publicaly express that opinon anywhere in this nation. Soap box and bull horn. See what happens.
I have. I've seen/heard others do the same. Bring up Israel in any non-RR group and take cover as angry rants about the USS Liberty, illegal settlements, disrespect of the US, interfering with our elections, ect. come flying at you.

Mind you I live in the South, in the Bible Belt and still this is my experience.
 
Jun 2010
157
I have never seen anybody get away with such criticism without getting attacked. I dont belvie it ever occurs without being attacked in a truly public audiance.