Minimum wage rates do not determine wage differentials.

Aug 2010
288
Cliffside Park, NJ
I claim to understand the logic of those sincerely contending a minimum wage rate should not be a federal matter, and I respectfully disagree with them.
I have less or no respect for those stating USA's minimum wage rate laws are government control of wage rates. USA's federal and state minimum wage rates do not determine wage differentials.

Believing otherwise at best reveals their ignorance regarding wage differentials or at worst, a psychopathic side of their character.

Respectfully, Supposn
 
Dec 2018
1,435
Tempe, AZ
If the min. wage was set right at the median wage, then 50% of everybody would be working at min. wage, and the difference between the min. wage the median wage of everyone over min. wage would be much smaller than now, and the difference would even greater than current if no min. Existed.
 
Aug 2010
288
Cliffside Park, NJ
If the min. wage was set right at the median wage, then 50% of everybody would be working at min. wage, and the difference between the min. wage the median wage of everyone over min. wage would be much smaller than now, and the difference would even greater than current if no min. Existed.
PaulSmith69, your prose or your logic is flawed.

Setting the minimum rate to the then existing median rate, would almost immediately cause the labor market to increase the median rate. In that case, 50% would not likely be working at the minimum rate. (That's how wage differentials work). There's no point to your example.

Respectfully, Supposn
 
Dec 2018
1,435
Tempe, AZ
PaulSmith69, your prose or your logic is flawed.

Setting the minimum rate to the then existing median rate, would almost immediately cause the labor market to increase the median rate. In that case, 50% would not likely be working at the minimum rate. (That's how wage differentials work). There's no point to your example.

Respectfully, Supposn
Actually the opposite. Massive amount of jobs would go overseas, and wages and employment would plummet.
 
Aug 2010
288
Cliffside Park, NJ
PaulSmith69, your prose or your logic is flawed.

Setting the minimum rate to the then existing median rate, would almost immediately cause the labor market to increase the median rate. In that case, 50% would not likely be working at the minimum rate. (That's how wage differentials work). There's no point to your example.

Respectfully, Supposn
 
Aug 2010
288
Cliffside Park, NJ
PaulSmith69, … Setting the minimum rate to the then existing median rate, would almost immediately cause the labor market to increase the median rate. In that case, 50% would not likely be working at the minimum rate. (That's how wage differentials work). ...
Actually the opposite. Massive amount of jobs would go overseas, and wages and employment would plummet.
PaulSmith69, when the U.S. Congress passes a minimum wage rate increase, they've always, and expect they will continue to enact increases gradually. They will never immediately increase the minimum rate to the then current median wage rate.

Additionally, they've always provided duration prior to enactment, to enable employers to make their pricing and wage adjustments.

Generally most USA enterprises begin increasing all of their lower and most, (if not all of their middle income salaries and hourly wage rates very soon after the increases has been passed and signed into law. Many USA enterprises act sooner in anticipation that the bill will be passed. They do so to avoid employee recruiting and retaining problems.

You're contending increasing the minimum rate does not immediately cause the labor market to increase the median wage rate?
Respectfully, Supposn
 
Dec 2018
1,435
Tempe, AZ
You're contending increasing the minimum rate does not immediately cause the labor market to increase the median wage rate?
Respectfully, Supposn

Nope. But the Seattle massive min. wage hike was a big flop. Jobs were cut, and median wage actually went down.
 
Aug 2010
288
Cliffside Park, NJ
Nope. But the Seattle massive min. wage hike was a big flop. Jobs were cut, and median wage actually went down.
PaulSmith69, what does your “nope” mean? You have a link to authoritative data indicating the median rate of Seattle Washington, decreased due to the increase of their minimum wage rate? Respectfully, Supposn
 
Dec 2018
1,435
Tempe, AZ
PaulSmith69, what does your “nope” mean? You have a link to authoritative data indicating the median rate of Seattle Washington, decreased due to the increase of their minimum wage rate? Respectfully, Supposn
PaulSmith69, what does your “nope” mean? You have a link to authoritative data indicating the median rate of Seattle Washington, decreased due to the increase of their minimum wage rate? Respectfully, Supposn
Yes, it it there. but I'm too busy and/or too tired and/or don't feel like finding it now.

Why else would Seattle cancel their unrealistic ambition?
 
Aug 2010
288
Cliffside Park, NJ
Supposn said: PaulSmith69, what does your “nope” mean? You have a link to authoritative data indicating the median rate of Seattle Washington, decreased due to the increase of their minimum wage rate? Respectfully, Supposn
Yes, it it there. but I'm too busy and/or too tired and/or don't feel like finding it now. Why else would Seattle cancel their unrealistic ambition?
PaulSmith69, why else? I suppose if and when you're less busy, or tired, or are motivated, you will find authoritative data indicating the median rate of Seattle Washington, decreased due to the increase of their minimum wage rate? It's been a while. You can't find it? Respectfully, Supposn
 

Southern Dad

Forum Staff
Aug 2018
543
Shady Dale, Georgia
Minimum wage needs to be a state matter, not federal. Every state has a Department of Labor that can enforce their minimum wage laws. Every state is different. Minimum wage is not meant to be the wage necessary to support a family of four. It is the wage for new employees proving themselves and those who only put forth the minimum effort. What works as a minimum wage in Georgia isn’t going to work in New York or California.

The federal government needs to reduce its role and let states govern.
 
Aug 2010
288
Cliffside Park, NJ
Minimum wage needs to be a state matter, not federal. Every state has a Department of Labor that can enforce their minimum wage laws. Every state is different. ... What works as a minimum wage in Georgia isn’t going to work in New York or California. The federal government needs to reduce its role and let states govern.
Southern Dad, the Minimum rate's not of any competitive advantage or disadvantage among the enterprises within USA's 50 states.

The federal Minimum wage rate prohibits any state from undermining the economy of any other state by permitting paying less than the Minimum wage rate to any individual covered by the federal act. This is of particular importance to a higher Minimum rate state bordered by states with lesser Minimum rates.

The federal law doesn't create absolute equity, but it does reduce the extent of states deliberate or inadvertent harm to each others' economies. The federal law does not prohibit states from increasing the minimum rate applicable to individuals within their states' jurisdictions.

Respectfully, Supposn
 
Last edited:

Southern Dad

Forum Staff
Aug 2018
543
Shady Dale, Georgia
Southern Dad, the Minimum rate's not of any competitive advantage or disadvantage among the enterprises within USA's 50 states.

The federal Minimum wage rate prohibits any state from undermining the economy of any other state by permitting paying less than the Minimum wage rate to any individual covered by the federal act. This is of particular importance to a higher Minimum rate state bordered by states with lesser Minimum rates.

The federal law doesn't create absolute equity, but it does reduce the extent of states deliberate or inadvertent harm to each others' economies. The federal law does not prohibit states from increasing the minimum rate applicable to individuals within their states' jurisdictions.

Respectfully, Supposn
That sounds good, doesn’t it? Jack that minimum wage up. Let’s go for $20 and hour and everyone will be enjoying that rainbow stew and free Bubble Up.
Since Mexico and China do not play by these same wage rules, where do all the jobs go? Right overseas. Now states like GA, SC, and TX have lower minimum wages than NY and OR. Where do employers build their new manufacturing facilities?
 
Aug 2010
288
Cliffside Park, NJ
That sounds good, doesn’t it? Jack that minimum wage up. Let’s go for $20 and hour and everyone will be enjoying that rainbow stew and free Bubble Up.
Since Mexico and China do not play by these same wage rules, where do all the jobs go? Right overseas. Now states like GA, SC, and TX have lower minimum wages than NY and OR. Where do employers build their new manufacturing facilities?
Southern Dad, if the federal minim wage is or is not increased, USA will continue experiencing our great annual chronic trade deficits of goods.

If your state were permitted to reduce Georgia's minimum wage rate to $5 per hour, it would be detrimental to the economies of other USA states; some production such as retail and service sales would shifted in favor of Georgia, but at net increase increase of poverty in our nation. There'd be extremely little proportional decrease of our annual trade deficits.

If the U.S. Congress repealed the federal minimum wage, some states would choose not to have a state minimum wage. USA would suffer greater poverty than otherwise because higher state minimum wage rates could not me sustained, and despite any reduction of USA's annual trade deficits, our extents of poverty would be increased.

I'm among the proponents of USA adopting the improved trade policy described in Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article. Refer to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Import_certificates
Respectfully, Supposn
 

Southern Dad

Forum Staff
Aug 2018
543
Shady Dale, Georgia
So you think that if there was no federal minimum wage, employers would pay less than $7 an hour? Considering Walmart, McDonalds, and every other major employer pays more than the national minimum wage, what do you base this opinion upon?

The fact is that our high wages here in this country have driven jobs out of this country. Why is GM assembling cars in Mexico and China?

There are more open jobs than people willing to fill them, in this country, right now. It’s an employee’s market. Employers are having to make better and better offers to get new employees.

I know. I just left my management career where I hired many people over the decades that I was there to a completely new career field.

Companies were making me offers and still are.


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Southern Dad

Forum Staff
Aug 2018
543
Shady Dale, Georgia
As for companies like Ford, GM, and Carrier moving product or assembly to Mexico to save on labor costs, at the detriment of American workers? We, the consumers should refuse to purchase their products.

Check the VIN of that car you are getting ready to buy. If it doesn’t have a 1, 4, 5, or 7 as the first digit, walk away. Kia, Hyundai, Honda, VW, BMW, and Mercedes are assembling here in the USA. What are they doing differently?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Aug 2010
288
Cliffside Park, NJ
... There are more open jobs than people willing to fill them, in this country, right now. It’s an employee’s market. Employers are having to make better and better offers to get new employees.
I know. I just left my management career where I hired many people over the decades that I was there to a completely new career field.
Companies were making me offers and still are. ...
Southern Dad, as you posted," employers are having to make better and better offers to get new employees". There are too many USA job openings due to lack of USA workers sufficiently able to step up to the jobs. That's detrimental to our economy.

Any improvement of a nation's educational and training systems will be reflected by no less improvement of the nation's social and economic well being. USA doesn't do as well as many other industrial nations. Other nations have been reducing the gaps between theirs and our median wage's purchasing power. The median wage's purchasing power is a good indicator of their nation's living standard.

Failing to increase the minimum wage rate or eliminating the federal minimum wage rate will not fill those jobs, but the states' departments of education could remedy those conditions.
Respectfully, Supposn
 
Aug 2010
288
Cliffside Park, NJ
So you think that if there was no federal minimum wage, employers would pay less than $7 an hour? Considering Walmart, McDonalds, and every other major employer pays more than the national minimum wage, what do you base this opinion upon? ...
Southern Dad, to begin with, any discussion in terms of U.S. nominal rather than “real” dollars becomes less real over passage of years.

If we're discussing Sep-2019 dollars, I do not believe the effective minimum wage would have the purchasing power of $7 2019-USA dollars if the federal minimum wage rate were eliminated; it would be very much less than that. I believe it would be significantly much less than $5 2019-USA dollars and the purchasing power of USA's median wage will also decrease, but at a proportionally lesser loss. (If there's no definitely enforced minimum rate, the indefinite market-determined minimum rate will too often "race to the bottom" which is likely much lless than $3 2019-USA dollars).

I base my opinion upon the behavior of wage differentials in labor markets. Wage differentials are driven by to lowest, rather than the highest wage rates. If the foreman gets a raise, it doesn't necessarily increase his crew's wage rates; if the crews wage rates were increased, increasing the foreman's rate became imperative.

Due the concepts driving wage differentials, the definite federal minimum wage rate is among the drivers for all USA wage rates. If there were no definite legally enforced minimum rate, there would be indefinite labor markets' minimum rates, and you would receive job offers of much lesser purchasing powers.

Respectfully, Supposn
 

Southern Dad

Forum Staff
Aug 2018
543
Shady Dale, Georgia
What jobs are paying minimum wage today? And what applicants are taking those jobs? When McDonalds and Walmart are paying more than $10 per hour, who is taking jobs at minimum wage?

You think changing minim wage is going to help but the reality is that there aren’t many jobs paying minimum wage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Aug 2010
288
Cliffside Park, NJ
What jobs are paying minimum wage today? And what applicants are taking those jobs? When McDonalds and Walmart are paying more than $10 per hour, who is taking jobs at minimum wage?

You think changing minim wage is going to help but the reality is that there aren’t many jobs paying minimum wage. ...
Southern Dad, I don't suppose you're among the people so ignorant as to believe the federal minimum wage rate only affects the wage rates of those earning the precise $7.25 per hour rate. The minimum rates effects upon the wage rates of 40 percent of USA's employees' who are earning the lowest wage rates range from critical to substantial.

I doubt if the majority of full-time lower wage rate workers are teenagers. But regarding employed youth:

[A 1996 modification of the federal Fair Labor Standards Act permits paying working youths a sub-minimum rate for the first 90 days of their employment. I'm not yet aware as to how this has or has not modified USA's labor markets or the remainder of our economy. I expect that if not currently, it will in the future be detrimental to our economy.

I'd be less opposed to this and more supportive of the sub-minimum pay rate with no age restrictions during even a much longer duration of training, if it were tied to reasonable expectation of significantly increasing the employees future earnings.

Refer to https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs32.htm ]
Respectfully, Supposn
 
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