Minimum wage.

Aug 2010
257
40
Cliffside Park, NJ
#41
PaulSmith69 said: “Minimum wages ADD to poverty, same as welfare does, rather than lifting people out of poverty.
NO incentive to get off one's lazy ass and improve one's self is a bad idea".

PaulSmith69 said: “More jobs would be available, economy would improve (even more), companies will have greater profits allowing increased wages”.
PaulSmith69, ... Do you contend that if the federal minimum wage rate were reduced more people would be willing to work, or are you contending that reducing the rate would not reduce the nation's median wage rate? ...
In the short term: probably no & no, but in the long term: yes & yes.
PaulSmith69, ... OK. Now please explain or defend your "long term" position? Respectfully, Supposn
Similar when welfare reform took place, and recipients were worse of at 1st, but later were much better off.
PaulSmith69, you're repeating yourself.
You haven't explained why the increasing jobs simultaneously with decreasing the median wage would not be net detrimental to our nation's economy; you haven't explained why it would increase USA commercial enterprise's aggregate profits.

If USA commercial enterprise's aggregate profits could be increased while reducing the purchasing power of the median wage, how would that not be a reduction of our nation's living standards and a net detriment to our economy? Is a nation's economy evaluated by investors rates of return, or by the purchasing power of its median wage? Many of the world's poorest nation's offer substantial rates of investors returns (at usually some greater risk to the politically less favored), but those nation's have the poorest of median wage purchasing powers that indicate their poor median living standards.

If the federal minimum wage rate's eliminated or to the extent that its purchasing power is reduced, I don't doubt there would be more jobs at lesser purchasing power rates and the purchasing power of the nation's median wage rate would also be somewhat reduced. Those additional jobs were previously not financially justified.
The progressive transformation from human to automation would slower; which is detrimental to a nation's economy. Automation has always been to our nation's net benefit.

Due to the minimum and the median wage being less than otherwise, the extent of national poverty will increase. Despite the small increase of GDP due to the increased jobs, the lesser than otherwise purchasing power of our median wage rate would indicate our nation's lesser than otherwise living standards. It's net detrimental to increase GDP if the median wage rate's reduced.

Respectfully, Supposn
 
Dec 2018
1,173
25
Tempe, AZ
#42
PaulSmith69, you're repeating yourself.
You haven't explained why the increasing jobs simultaneously with decreasing the median wage would not be net detrimental to our nation's economy; you haven't explained why it would increase USA commercial enterprise's aggregate profits.
Because the laws of supply and demand won't cause a drop in median income, especially in today's booming economy and low, low unemployment rate. Yes, certainly might have caused a drop if under Obama's sluggish economy, but certainly not now, and now is an absolutely great time for more business freedom.

When people don't "feel stuck", resigned if you will to be forever on an arbitrary minimum wage, the sky would be the limit for them! :cool:
 
Aug 2010
257
40
Cliffside Park, NJ
#43
Because the laws of supply and demand won't cause a drop in median income, especially in today's booming economy and low, low unemployment rate. Yes, certainly might have caused a drop if under Obama's sluggish economy, but certainly not now, and now is an absolutely great time for more business freedom.

When people don't "feel stuck", resigned if you will to be forever on an arbitrary minimum wage, the sky would be the limit for them!
PaulSmith69, it's mathematically impossible for the median wage rate not to be reduced if there's a reduction of aggregate lesser than median wage rates. Mathematics knows no political preference. It is a philosophical system of thought that operates exactly in the same manner without regard for the economy's condition or the nation's economic policies.

If the federal minimum wage rate's purchasing power is reduced, the median wage rate's is also reduced. In such an economy, regardless of increased numbers of jobs that financially were previously unjustified due to a greater minimum wage rate, the nation's living standards are reduced. How could USA businesses in aggregate, increase their profits in such cases?

The purchasing power of the federal minimum wage should retain its purchasing power. The Republicans, not the majority of USA voters are resigned to whatever at any time is the current finite amount of the federal minimum wage rate. Some Republicans advocate eliminating it entirely.

Respectfully, Supposn
 
Dec 2018
1,173
25
Tempe, AZ
#44
PaulSmith69, it's mathematically impossible for the median wage rate not to be reduced if there's a reduction of aggregate lesser than median wage rates. Mathematics knows no political preference. It is a philosophical system of thought that operates exactly in the same manner without regard for the economy's condition or the nation's economic policies.

If the federal minimum wage rate's purchasing power is reduced, the median wage rate's is also reduced. In such an economy, regardless of increased numbers of jobs that financially were previously unjustified due to a greater minimum wage rate, the nation's living standards are reduced. How could USA businesses in aggregate, increase their profits in such cases?

The purchasing power of the federal minimum wage should retain its purchasing power. The Republicans, not the majority of USA voters are resigned to whatever at any time is the current finite amount of the federal minimum wage rate. Some Republicans advocate eliminating it entirely.

Respectfully, Supposn
You are assuming that as soon as minimum wage is abolished, those at minimum wages are going to get an immediate, huge pay cut. A HUGELY bad assumption! Employers are already stabilized at what they are paying, and their business model is in harmony with current wages being given.

Plus, there is what is stopping people currently making just a few bucks MORE than the minimum from being cut back to the minimum NOW? It is called "supply & demand". Same thing would make your assumption not necessarily being true.
 
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Aug 2010
257
40
Cliffside Park, NJ
#45
You are assuming that as soon as minimum wage is abolished, those at minimum wages are going to get an immediate, huge pay cut. A HUGELY bad assumption! ...
PaulSmith69, no, not an immediate pay cut. But if a nation does not have something that reasonably performs the function of the enforced minimum wage rate, wages have extremely poor purchasing powers and the nation's living standard suffer. That's not an assumption, it's a certainty.

The concept of supply and demand of wage rates is dependent upon the concept of wage differentials. That's why the federal minimum wage is meaningless when there's a scarcity of available labor for a specific job. Respectfully, Supposn
 
Aug 2010
257
40
Cliffside Park, NJ
#46
... what is stopping people currently making just a few bucks MORE than the minimum from being cut back to the minimum NOW? It is called "supply & demand". Same thing would make your assumption not necessarily being true.
PaulSmith69, the relatively enforced minimum wage rate AND the concept of wage differentials AND supply and demand greatly hinder employers opportunities to reduce wage rates.

If we eliminated the minimum wage rate, and there's no scarcity of available labor for the jobs, the race to the bottom, (i.e. wages of extremely poor purchasing powers), are not an assumption but rather a certainty. That's why every modern industrial nation has something performing the same function as our minimum wage laws.

Respectfully, Supposn
 
Dec 2018
1,173
25
Tempe, AZ
#47
PaulSmith69, no, not an immediate pay cut. But if a nation does not have something that reasonably performs the function of the enforced minimum wage rate, wages have extremely poor purchasing powers and the nation's living standard suffer. That's not an assumption, it's a certainty.

The concept of supply and demand of wage rates is dependent upon the concept of wage differentials. That's why the federal minimum wage is meaningless when there's a scarcity of available labor for a specific job. Respectfully, Supposn
There are PLENTY of MUCH higher paying jobs than minimum. For those not willing to spend the time to do the research to find one, it is their loss.

I worked part-time while going to college for $1.90 an hour, and didn't need to foolishly take out student loans.
 
Aug 2010
257
40
Cliffside Park, NJ
#48
There are PLENTY of MUCH higher paying jobs than minimum. For those not willing to spend the time to do the research to find one, it is their loss.
I worked part-time while going to college for $1.90 an hour, and didn't need to foolishly take out student loans.
PaulSmith69, I was fortunate. I went to college at night on the GI bill, and I got loans, and I worked while I was helping support my family.

But what's the point you're trying to make?
What do you mean, "For those not willing to spend the time to do the research to find one, it is their loss"? I studied the technology and I worked. Research didn't do it. Respectfully, Supposn
 
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Dec 2018
1,173
25
Tempe, AZ
#49
PaulSmith69, I was fortunate. I went to college at night on the GI bill, and I got loans, and I worked while I was helping support my family.

But what's the point you're trying to make?
What do you mean, "For those not willing to spend the time to do the research to find one, it is their loss"? I studied the technology and I worked. Research didn't do it. Respectfully, Supposn
Right, but even with a particular degree and/or skills, job pay & benefits vary widely. If you thoroughly shop around, you can find a good paying job, vs. just taking the 1st job you come to.

When I worked for Lockheed Martin (I worked there like 4 total times for 16 total years over a 27 year period), one time I left the company for about 18 months, and came back making 45% more, and at three (3) salary grades higher! :D

Just like with ObamaCare, when I had it, I found that plans varied massively widely; you could get a high cost plan with poor coverage, or get a low cost plan with great coverage, and everything in between. One who just grabs a plan & doesn't take the time to compare plans would likely be at a great loss.
 
Aug 2010
257
40
Cliffside Park, NJ
#50
H.R. 582, “Raise the wage act” is a good bill, but opponents of the bill will refrain from mentioning the minimum hourly rate will not be $15 until 7th year after the bill's passage.
In the likely case that it's not passed through and added to our federal statutes, I urge U.S. Congressional members to continue striving and pass a bill that would increase the minimum wage rate by 12.5% of its purchasing power until it attains 125% of its February-1968 purchasing power. Thereafter the rate should be monitored and annually adjusted to retain that purchasing power.

Respectfully, Supposn
 
Dec 2018
1,173
25
Tempe, AZ
#51
Only "good" with the intent on causing unemployment. :oops:

SIX NATIONS WITHOUT MINIMUM WAGE
Something that frequently surprises people is that some of the wealthiest and most prosperous countries in the world have no minimum wage. Sweden, Singapore, Norway, Denmark, and Switzerland have all foregone the minimum wage – yet their economies are thriving.

https://nomadcapitalist.com/2019/03/24/countries-no-minimum-wage/
 
Aug 2010
257
40
Cliffside Park, NJ
#52
Only "good" with the intent on causing unemployment. :oops:

SIX NATIONS WITHOUT MINIMUM WAGE
Something that frequently surprises people is that some of the wealthiest and most prosperous countries in the world have no minimum wage. Sweden, Singapore, Norway, Denmark, and Switzerland have all foregone the minimum wage – yet their economies are thriving.

https://nomadcapitalist.com/2019/03/24/countries-no-minimum-wage/
PaulSmith69, I checked upon Denmark, and you seem to be incorrect. Those somethings that I refer to within modern industrial nations are not wage rates determined by independent participants within the nation's labor markets. If the modern industrial nation's government does not effectively enforce a single or multi minimum wage rate, that nation's has some other quasi-government entity that similarly performs a function effectively similar to our federal minimum wage rate. Respectfully, Supposn
PaulSmith69, the relatively enforced minimum wage rate AND the concept of wage differentials AND supply and demand greatly hinder employers opportunities to reduce wage rates.
If we eliminated the minimum wage rate, and there's no scarcity of available labor for the jobs, the race to the bottom, (i.e. wages of extremely poor purchasing powers), are not an assumption but rather a certainty. That's why every modern industrial nation has something performing the same function as our minimum wage laws.
Respectfully, Supposn
 
Dec 2018
1,173
25
Tempe, AZ
#53
PaulSmith69, I checked upon Denmark, and you seem to be incorrect. Those somethings that I refer to within modern industrial nations are not wage rates determined by independent participants within the nation's labor markets. If the modern industrial nation's government does not effectively enforce a single or multi minimum wage rate, that nation's has some other quasi-government entity that similarly performs a function effectively similar to our federal minimum wage rate. Respectfully, Supposn
The market determines wages BEST. Show me a link that Denmark has one. Thanks.

 
Aug 2010
257
40
Cliffside Park, NJ
#55
PaulSmith69, within a nation where almost 2/3 of their labor forces are unionized, I suppose is an indication of quasi-government entities with substantial political influence. An indication of their power is they, rather than the government administers the systems for Denmark workers' unemployment compensations. Unemployment compensations are regulated by both government statutes and union's regulations.

(U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reports about 10% membership in the USA. Over 90% of those are civil service employees).
Respectfully, Supposn

Excerpted from, https://www.worker-participation.eu/National-Industrial-Relations/Countries/Denmark/Trade-Unions .
“There are about 2.05 million trade union members in Denmark.1 With a labour force of 2.6 million, excluding the self-employed, this produces a union density of almost 80%, although the figure is somewhat lower if retired union members are taken into account. A recent study for the largest union confederation estimated union density at 67% in 2010,2 and the ICTWSS database of union membership put union density in Denmark at 68.5% in the same year.3 One reason for this high level of membership may be trade union involvement in the administration of unemployment funds. But this is certainly not the only one”.

You may also find
https://iclg.com/practice-areas/employment-and-labour-laws-and-regulations/denmark
of some interest.
 
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