this is the end. empires die at 250 years.

Oct 2012
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#1
America's Decadence Signals End of an Empire


Sir John Glubb, a British author and lecturer, argued that most empires generally don’t last longer than 250 years. Greek Empire? 231 years. Roman Empire? 207 years. Ottoman Empire? 250 years. Romanov Russian Empire? 234 years. British Empire? 250 years.

The United States of America?
Well, we’re sitting at a ripe old age of 237 and deep in the midst of what Glubb called the Age of Decadence - the final stage of an empire that is marked by defensiveness, pessimism, materialism, frivolity, and the Welfare State.

Please discuss and let worry and panic ensue at once. :cold:
 
Oct 2012
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#2
This idea has been around for hundreds of years and is flawed. The evolution of an Empire is not its end...though it may signal an end of some aspects to some people. Basing opinion on outdated dogma never gives an accurate assessment of reality to anyone but the individual or group voicing said opinion. In fact many will see these changes as healthy growth of society and increased health of the "Empire".
 
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#3
1)...though it may signal an end of some aspects to some people....

2) ... In fact many will see these changes as healthy growth of society and increased health of the "Empire".


1) yes, the end of civility, freedom, and the civilized populace.

2) yes, I am sure the barbarian hoards that sacked Rome felt it quite a bit of healthy growth to be able to rape, pillage and murder.
 
Oct 2012
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#5
1) yes, the end of civility, freedom, and the civilized populace.

2) yes, I am sure the barbarian hoards that sacked Rome felt it quite a bit of healthy growth to be able to rape, pillage and murder.
Interesting...Personally I find most Religions to be uncivil and very opposed to freedom, I take it this would be what you are basing your "Civilized Populace" upon?

Telling everyone who does not think as you do they are doomed is NOT civil. AND basing the realities of modernity on ancient history is rather ignorant, as is assuming you actually "KNOW" what it entails.
 
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#6
Interesting...Personally I find most Religions to be uncivil and very opposed to freedom, I take it this would be what you are basing your "Civilized Populace" upon?

Telling everyone who does not think as you do they are doomed is NOT civil. AND basing the realities of modernity on ancient history is rather ignorant, as is assuming you actually "KNOW" what it entails.

you're talking about religion, yet the article did not? So maybe you should create a new thread for this line of debate or discuss the article at hand, eh?
 
Oct 2012
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#7
you're talking about religion, yet the article did not? So maybe you should create a new thread for this line of debate or discuss the article at hand, eh?

~OR~
Maybe you should fess up to what I stated and quit trying to hide from your own positions?

To anyone of even minimal intellect it would be obvious the commentary of this thread led directly to you being called out on employing religion in defense of your OP.....
 
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#8

~OR~
Maybe you should fess up to what I stated and quit trying to hide from your own positions?

To anyone of even minimal intellect it would be obvious the commentary of this thread led directly to you being called out on employing religion in defense of your OP.....

Where did I employ religion here? Please quote it, I can't seem to find it.
 
Oct 2012
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#9
Where did I employ religion here? Please quote it, I can't seem to find it.
On what do you base your perception of Civility and freedom?

1) yes, the end of civility, freedom, and the civilized populace.
Would a Muslim feel the same way?
An Atheist?

Your perception of what you consider a collapsing Empire is based almost entirely on your religious faith and Dogma. I am simply pointing this out from the perspective of someone devoid of this influence.
 
Aug 2016
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#10
The subject of the rise and decline of powerful countries is quite interesting, and can lend a lot of knowledge about the nature of nations, international power, and patterns of growth and decline.

The form of government is really not important in such a study. The fact that a nation-state has risen to the top of the heap, and has the power to control vast areas of the globe, puts it in the position of top-dog. The question is not if it will eventually fail and be humiliated, but when and how.

I heard a radio interview with the author of the work that started this thread. He seems scholarly and intelligent (mostly because his work mirrors many of my own findings on the subject - ;)). It isn't a "doom and gloom" scenario he paints. It is a work of socio-political scientific study and I think his findings are worthy of consideration.

The patterns of growth, stagnation, and decline are as evident in the USA as they were in each of the other world powers in the study. The people of the times were too close to the events to see the patterns.

Most are like green-horn tourists trying to find their way through the Sierra Nevada Mountains. All they can see is trees and rocks. But, if you climb one of the tallest rocks and look around, you can get a better perspective of the terrain. (Forget climbing the trees; lowest branches on Sequoias tend to be about 40 feet from the ground...)

I find that looking at current events through historic perspective gives a lot better understanding of the world and how it works.

Watching the decline has been interesting. Seeing the politicians claiming to do good things, but always getting bad results, has been enlightening. Wading into the political fray and trying to change things for the better has been invigorating. Realizing that it is inevitable has been liberating.

Now that I understand it isn't my problem to solve, I am free to stay above the fray and laugh at the clowns. It makes the circus so much more fun to watch.
 
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#11
On what do you base your perception of Civility and freedom?



Would a Muslim feel the same way?
An Atheist?

Your perception of what you consider a collapsing Empire is based almost entirely on your religious faith and Dogma. I am simply pointing this out from the perspective of someone devoid of this influence.

A variety of experience influences my definitions of words. Civility and civil are concepts that are not owned by any religion and I did not infer that. I haven't brought up religion once in this thread.

You have jumped the shark ole boy . All is forgiven, however, as everyone is entitled to such a misstep now and again. Also since Christ forgave I must also forgive. I will be Chrisitan about it and turn the other cheek :giggle:.
 
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#12


In Batman Begins, the League of Shadows plays an important role in toppling societies/empires when they become too corrupt, decadent, etc.

...an ancient and powerful secret society whose stated purpose was to restore balance to the world by enacting purges at various points in history. They targeted places they deemed were the greatest sources of civilization's corruption and decadence, places that led to suffering and injustice. Acting as a self-appointed check against human corruption for thousands of years, some of the previous activities of the League included the sacking of Rome, starting the Black Plague, the great London fire, and the Gotham economic depression.
 
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#13
not a big deal, but more proof that this is the end...

Book of Prophesies 2012: Baba Vanga prophesied: 44th US president would be black and bring crises




<H1>“Black President election will destroy USA”
Baba Vanga prophesied even that the 44th US president would be black and he would be “the last one.” She went on, saying that at the time of his stepping into office, there would be a spectacular economic crisis. Everyone will put their hopes in him to end it, but the opposite will happen; he will bring the country down and conflicts between north and south states will escalate. Many articles were written about that:


“Vanga predicted a black man to become the 44th U.S. President (after George Bush), and this President will be the last one because America will freeze up or go down in the economics. It probably can divide into the North and South states,” DobryachOk writes.
“Vanga’s prediction sounds like this: when a black President is elected problems come to the U.S.,” an anonymous author says.
“Vanga predicted African American President could lead the U.S. to a miracle and the whole world would win,” nusha states.
“Vanga predicted America would have the crisis and here you are!”
Vanga mentioned the possibility for the situation to escalate to a third world war in which the nuclear bomb would be used again. Yet, she predicts also a bright responsibilities for the future, "After 2000 there will be no flood, instead we will see peace and prosperity", Vanga said. But humanity must recognize and accept the guidance of this Messianic personality.
Baba Vanga gives few clues which will help us recognize this "Peacemaker" who in her words "will sign the lasting peace". She clearly predicts "a new religion will take the earth by the storm." Nostradamus also depicts the Messianic figure, born in the East and bringing the lasting peace, as a new religious founder coming under the name "Moon".
</H1>
 
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#14
:rolleyes:
Baba Vanga prophesied even that the 44th US president would be black and he would be “the last one.” She went on, saying that at the time of his stepping into office, there would be a spectacular economic crisis. Everyone will put their hopes in him to end it, but the opposite will happen; he will bring the country down and conflicts between north and south states will escalate. Many articles were written about that:

“Vanga predicted a black man to become the 44th U.S. President (after George Bush), and this President will be the last one because America will freeze up or go down in the economics. It probably can divide into the North and South states,” DobryachOk writes.“Vanga’s prediction sounds like this: when a black President is elected problems come to the U.S.,” an anonymous author says.“Vanga predicted African American President could lead the U.S. to a miracle and the whole world would win,” nusha states.“Vanga predicted America would have the crisis and here you are!”
Vanga mentioned the possibility for the situation to escalate to a third world war in which the nuclear bomb would be used again. Yet, she predicts also a bright responsibilities for the future, "After 2000 there will be no flood, instead we will see peace and prosperity", Vanga said. But humanity must recognize and accept the guidance of this Messianic personality.Baba Vanga gives few clues which will help us recognize this "Peacemaker" who in her words "will sign the lasting peace". She clearly predicts "a new religion will take the earth by the storm." Nostradamus also depicts the Messianic figure, born in the East and bringing the lasting peace, as a new religious founder coming under the name "Moon".
 
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#15
Basically she predicted that Obama would be the last US president. Therefore and hitherto, we can ascertain that who ever gets "elected" as next president is not really elected but placed there.
 
Oct 2012
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#16
Wow....you seem to "Enjoy" far more interesting concepts than just religion.

I heard tell once that an evil sorcerer would create war that would kill the kings of men and only the smallest of us would be able to save us all from doom.
 
Aug 2016
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#17
Those are quite intersting facts, and certainly seem pertinent to the current dillemma of our society's survival and continuted dominance of the planet. I did similar mathematical and historic comparisons years ago and concluded that it was unlikely that the postition of "Empire of the Free World" could last my lifetime.

That said, it has lasted a long time more than I would have predicted in 1965 or 1976... or a lot of times since then, when it looked like it should collapse at any moment.

Technologies change, and with them the methods of dealing with the future changes. Mind-bending techniques that weren't heard of 20 years ago are common practice on social media today. Psychological controls that would have been unthinkable a few years ago are now implemented on a regular basis. Nobody cares or notices.

So, the length of time it takes a corrupt imperial system to fail may vary due to new methods, but the inevitability of the fall is guaranteed. Similar to economic failures, the artificial propping up of the system is likely to make the eventual fall even more spectacular.

When it happens I want to be where I can duck behind a pile of rocks and wait for the fallout to dissipate.
 
Likes: 1 person
Oct 2012
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Louisville, Ky
#18
El VetoVoter;62174.....snip....[B said:
the artificial propping up of the system [/B]is likely to make the eventual fall even more spectacular.

When it happens I want to be where I can duck behind a pile of rocks and wait for the fallout to dissipate.

The "Artificial" IS the new system.
 
Aug 2016
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Sonora Desert
#19
If "the empire" does die, it is because too many stupid voters fell for "the shiny object". :confused:
Ahhhh, isn't democracy wonderful!?

A system where the stupid and greedy vote to support corrupt schemers, in order to make rules and regulations for everybody, looting the producers to support the leeches, with the majority of voters getting their information from 10-second soundbites and professional myrmidon herders.

Pardon me if I scoff at the idea that such a system could possibly produce good results. It is only passably defended by comparing it to the worse systems that predate it (similar to defending waterboarding as less inhumane than the rack.):eek:

It gives me peace of mind to refrain from playing that electoral game.

May the non-initiation of Force be with you.
 
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Oct 2012
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#20
Bump...


“Vanga predicted a black man to become the 44th U.S. President (after George Bush), and this President will be the last one because America will freeze up or go down in the economics. It probably can divide into the North and South states,” DobryachOk writes.“Vanga’s prediction sounds like this: when a black President is elected problems come to the U.S.,” an anonymous author says.“Vanga predicted African American President could lead the U.S. to a miracle and the whole world would win,” nusha states.“Vanga predicted America would have the crisis and here you are!”
Vanga mentioned the possibility for the situation to escalate to a third world war in which the nuclear bomb would be used again. Yet, she predicts also a bright responsibilities for the future, "After 2000 there will be no flood, instead we will see peace and prosperity", Vanga said. But humanity must recognize and accept the guidance of this Messianic personality.Baba Vanga gives few clues which will help us recognize this "Peacemaker" who in her words "will sign the lasting peace". She clearly predicts "a new religion will take the earth by the storm." Nostradamus also depicts the Messianic figure, born in the East and bringing the lasting peace, as a new religious founder coming under the name "Moon".