Why is the US in the UN?

[Patrick]

The UN is a conclave of mostly current and ex communist states, euroweenies, islamist theocracies, and third world toilet bowls, and they exist mostly to constrain US power and as a forum for antisemitism against israel. Worst of all, they are the decider of what is a "legal" war.

 

[DodgeFB]

The UN is a conclave of mostly current and ex communist states, euroweenies, islamist theocracies, and third world toilet bowls, and they exist mostly to constrain US power and as a forum for antisemitism against israel. Worst of all, they are the decider of what is a "legal" war.

The only reason I see is so we can veto some of the outrageous crap the others want to do.

 

[David]

We're not in the UN, we ARE the UN.

 

[DodgeFB]

We're not in the UN, we ARE the UN.

Maybe we could just shut it down. I have always wanted to turn that building into a dog shelter.

 

[Patrick]

We're not in the UN, we ARE the UN.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

 

[Patrick]

Maybe we could just shut it down. I have always wanted to turn that building into a dog shelter.

I say convert the main tall building to condos and sell them - would bring in a fortune - enough to pay our national debt interest for about ten seconds.

 

[David]

I think the only reason we keep it around is because it's basically a (really bad) global gov't and so we get to claim to have the global capital.

 

[DodgeFB]

I think the only reason we keep it around is because it's basically a (really bad) global gov't and so we get to claim to have the global capital.

Or the "global" toilet depending on what is happening at the time.

 

[Patrick]

Seriously, in being a member, we accede to the idea that they are the arbiters of international "legality", which is beyond bizarre, since many of the representatives there only represent whatever gang of thugs has seized power in their countries.

 

[skeptic-f]

I'm amused by the incredibly stupid rhetoric being tossed around this thread. The UN is indeed a badly run, thoroughly corrupt and hypocritical organisation but it is also a body that does a lot of necessary work throughout the world and which acts as a global forum and sounding board. The United States cannot just "shut down" the United Nations; there would be a long line of countries willing and eager to offer a new headquarters and the funding gap would be covered (with some grumbling, of course).

Pulling out of the UN would have a carry-on effect. It would weaken American influence in NATO, SEATO, the OAS, the G8 and G20, the IMF and the World Bank, and most other international bodies (including scientific ones). It would virtually guarantee some form of strong sanctions or embargo would be placed on Israel, that certain American citizens would be indicted in the World Court for war crimes and/or crimes against humanity, and that only in situations where the US was willing to go to war would America's opinion really be heeded.

 

[DodgeFB]

I'm amused by the incredibly stupid rhetoric being tossed around this thread. The UN is indeed a badly run, thoroughly corrupt and hypocritical organisation but it is also a body that does a lot of necessary work throughout the world and which acts as a global forum and sounding board. The United States cannot just "shut down" the United Nations; there would be a long line of countries willing and eager to offer a new headquarters and the funding gap would be covered (with some grumbling, of course).

Pulling out of the UN would have a carry-on effect. It would weaken American influence in NATO, SEATO, the OAS, the G8 and G20, the IMF and the World Bank, and most other international bodies (including scientific ones). It would virtually guarantee some form of strong sanctions or embargo would be placed on Israel, that certain American citizens would be indicted in the World Court for war crimes and/or crimes against humanity, and that only in situations where the US was willing to go to war would America's opinion really be heeded.

As I said before, the veto vote is our only benefit of being in the silly thing. But then I don't have a very high opinion of most of those "global" feel good clubs.

 

[Patrick]

I'm amused by the incredibly stupid rhetoric being tossed around this thread. The UN is indeed a badly run, thoroughly corrupt and hypocritical organisation but it is also a body that does a lot of necessary work throughout the world and which acts as a global forum and sounding board. The United States cannot just "shut down" the United Nations; there would be a long line of countries willing and eager to offer a new headquarters and the funding gap would be covered (with some grumbling, of course).

Are you sure you picked the appropriate site name for yourself? If by necessary work, you mean humanitarian work, that doesn't require an organization which also can and does constrain US military power, and which provides a home for anti-semitism and a forum for dictatorships.

I'm not suggesting the US shut down the UN - just that we leave it. If we did, it would quickly dissolve anyway, since the loss of one of it's main functions, hindering the US, would disappear.

Pulling out of the UN would have a carry-on effect. It would weaken American influence in NATO, SEATO, the OAS, the G8 and G20, the IMF and the World Bank, and most other international bodies (including scientific ones).

You need to read up dude - SEATO was dissolved in 1977. The UN should be for the same reason - it's a failure. The US should pull out of NATO too - the reason for its existence - defense against the soviet union, no longer exists. As for the economic organizations, your influence depends on your economic power, not that you are a UN member.

It would virtually guarantee some form of strong sanctions or embargo would be placed on Israel,

No it wouldn't since the US would ignore them and there's nothing anyone could do about it.

that certain American citizens would be indicted in the World Court for war crimes and/or crimes against humanity,

Good luck to them on trying to enforce it.

 

[David]

I'm amused by the incredibly stupid rhetoric being tossed around this thread. The UN is indeed a badly run, thoroughly corrupt and hypocritical organisation but it is also a body that does a lot of necessary work throughout the world and which acts as a global forum and sounding board. The United States cannot just "shut down" the United Nations; there would be a long line of countries willing and eager to offer a new headquarters and the funding gap would be covered (with some grumbling, of course).

Pulling out of the UN would have a carry-on effect. It would weaken American influence in NATO, SEATO, the OAS, the G8 and G20, the IMF and the World Bank, and most other international bodies (including scientific ones). It would virtually guarantee some form of strong sanctions or embargo would be placed on Israel, that certain American citizens would be indicted in the World Court for war crimes and/or crimes against humanity, and that only in situations where the US was willing to go to war would America's opinion really be heeded.

We'd also be declared a rouge state, how many times have we vetoed that resolution?

 

[Patrick]

We'd also be declared a rouge state, how many times have we vetoed that resolution?

Not being in the UN makes you a "rogue state"?? That make as much sense as saying if you don't belong to the kiwanis, you're a rougue person.

 

[David]

Not being in the UN makes you a "rogue state"?? That make as much sense as saying if you don't belong to the kiwanis, you're a rougue person.

No, I mean we keep getting declared a rouge state but it never goes anywhere because we just veto it. If we left the UN we'd have sanctions slapped on us overnight.

 

[Patrick]

No, I mean we keep getting declared a rouge state but it never goes anywhere because we just veto it. If we left the UN we'd have sanctions slapped on us overnight.

(The spelling is "rogue". )

Utterly ridiculous - eg China wants to lose it's biggest trading partner? Likewise mexico? Canada? Europe?

What if I declare you to be a "rogue person". What happens next - your leg falls off?

 

[skeptic-f]

I agree that the United States would not be declared a 'rogue' nation, but I could see some of our competitors using a similar excuse to slap a few useful sanctions on the United States. Just keeping the United States from legally buying rare earth metals would cause massive costs/problems in several areas of the economy and affect our military readiness. Or how about the high-profile arrest and trial of an ex-senior member of a White House administration?

 

[Patrick]

I agree that the United States would not be declared a 'rogue' nation, but I could see some of our competitors using a similar excuse to slap a few useful sanctions on the United States. Just keeping the United States from legally buying rare earth metals would cause massive costs/problems in several areas of the economy and affect our military readiness. Or how about the high-profile arrest and trial of an ex-senior member of a White House administration?

You think people would invite retaliatory trade measures from the US, and for no good reason, just because we left? And when the US no longer recognizes UN courts and treaties, grabbing an american would be an act of war, and they wouldn't do it anyway. The chinese gerontocracy is loaded with mass murderers, and nobody ever arrests them - why? Because such arrests are attempted only against people who can no longer fight back - Pinochet, Ratko Mladic, Khaddaffy.

 

[David]

(The spelling is "rogue". )

Utterly ridiculous - eg China wants to lose it's biggest trading partner? Likewise mexico? Canada? Europe?

What if I declare you to be a "rogue person". What happens next - your leg falls off?

Nobody slaps China with sanctions because they own most everyone and the ones they don't get held back by us as we don't want to damage the economy of 1 of our primary trading partners. That dynamic doesn't apply to us, China wan't do anything to us for the same reason we don't do anything to them (economic MAD, got'a love it) but they don't really have any geo-political reason (or ability) to stop OPEC from issuing an oil embargo or France ordering the arrest of Dick Chaney and as we'd no longer be in the UN, we'd have no way of stopping it. Granted we could just ignore them as we'd be safe behind our military power but that's not going to save our economy and retaliatory sanctions will only push everyone who isn't already into the waiting arms of China.

 

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