"Palestinian"
- Thread starter Patrick
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You way don't get it. The people who call themselves that are the descendants of wandering Hashemite tribesmen who were all over the eastern mediterranean. They use the word "Palestinian" in conjunction with old colonial maps to exploit people's historical ignorance in pretending that there used to be a nation state called "Palestine" populated by "Palestinians" which deserves to be restored. The name "Palestine" traces back to a provincial place name imposed by the Romans on conquered Judea 2000 years ago, and had always been in the past used by whatever imperial power controlled the area, ending with the British mandate in the 20th century. It's a colonial term, nothing more.
Complete crap
I would agree that the name "Palestinian" is simply one connected to the area and first officially used by the Romans (although it was probably a corruption of the same root word that the Israelites used for the Philistines that lived along the coastal area at that time in Biblical history.
The mistake is to lump all Palestinians into the "wandering Hashemite tribesmen" category. The Palestinians are a hodge-podge of whoever ended up dwelling in the area, from bits of Canaanite, Edomite and Moabite blood to bits of Samaritan (quite a few converted to Islam and Christianity) to Syrians and Crusaders, to Arabs and Turks and whoever else happened to be passing by or was brought there as slaves and later emancipated.
Culturally, Palestinian culture is mainly Arabic-Semitic, but there are (or were) local sub-strata at the time of the Zionist influx (1880s) when the population of Israel/Palestine was around 850,000 and of which 750,000 would be what we know call Palestinian (and only about 60,000 were Jewish). Whatever you want to call them (the Fuzzy Blue People?, the fact remains that the ancestors of the Palestinians lived in the Israel Palestine area for hundreds (and in some cases thousands) of years.
It is true that there was never a seperate state called Palestine, but it was certainly peopled by the people who live there and who had their own history and culture. Apparently Patrick feels that such things don't matter, although how this proves an Israeli claim to the same territory (isn't an abandonment of 1,500 plus years long enough to negate a land claim?) is beyond the bounds of the same sort of legalism he is trying to apply against the Palestinians.
I would agree that the name "Palestinian" is simply one connected to the area and first officially used by the Romans (although it was probably a corruption of the same root word that the Israelites used for the Philistines that lived along the coastal area at that time in Biblical history.
The mistake is to lump all Palestinians into the "wandering Hashemite tribesmen" category. The Palestinians are a hodge-podge of whoever ended up dwelling in the area, from bits of Canaanite, Edomite and Moabite blood to bits of Samaritan (quite a few converted to Islam and Christianity) to Syrians and Crusaders, to Arabs and Turks and whoever else happened to be passing by or was brought there as slaves and later emancipated.
Culturally, Palestinian culture is mainly Arabic-Semitic, but there are (or were) local sub-strata at the time of the Zionist influx (1880s) when the population of Israel/Palestine was around 850,000 and of which 750,000 would be what we know call Palestinian (and only about 60,000 were Jewish). Whatever you want to call them (the Fuzzy Blue People?, the fact remains that the ancestors of the Palestinians lived in the Israel Palestine area for hundreds (and in some cases thousands) of years.
It is true that there was never a seperate state called Palestine, but it was certainly peopled by the people who live there and who had their own history and culture. Apparently Patrick feels that such things don't matter, although how this proves an Israeli claim to the same territory (isn't an abandonment of 1,500 plus years long enough to negate a land claim?) is beyond the bounds of the same sort of legalism he is trying to apply against the Palestinians.
The whole "it was never theirs in the first place" argument doesn't work because prior to the first nation, no nation existed. That should not be an argument for or against a nation's existence. That aside, I was commenting more on the term "Palestinian" and not necessarily a state of Palestine.
There's no such thing as an American. "America" was a colonial holding of the British Empire. This is sort of like as if someone insisted in 2011 calling citizens of Israel "British Palestinians".
First, don't resort to the third person when responding to someone's post - it makes you look like a sissy.
Ya ya yaaaaaaaaaaaaa - there have been all kinds of people intermixed in that area for a long time - you think you've made some kind of REAL BIG POINT?
The basic ethnicity of the nomadic "Palestinians" is hashmite, and they were and are all over the middle east, so by your (apparent) logic, let's make the whole middle east one big country and call it "Palestine" - why limit to just where the jews are??
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Your analogy (if I understand it) fails - Americans have never claimed to be a homogeneous ethnic group, with a claim to America that pre-existed the British Empire.
Let us not live in denial ...
Criminals and outlaws and their off springs make up bulk of American population.
They were thrown out of Europe and sent to Americas, Australia etc.
White man tries to justify ownership of the earth and rest of the people live on their mercy.
Jews were thrown out of Germany and they in turn threw Palestinians from their homes who now live in refugee camps of Lebanon.
Since White man did not want to punish fellow White man (German), they found it convenient to do it to Arabs.
Now, with support of US, It is destroying its neighbors.
Criminals and outlaws and their off springs make up bulk of American population.
They were thrown out of Europe and sent to Americas, Australia etc.
White man tries to justify ownership of the earth and rest of the people live on their mercy.
Jews were thrown out of Germany and they in turn threw Palestinians from their homes who now live in refugee camps of Lebanon.
Since White man did not want to punish fellow White man (German), they found it convenient to do it to Arabs.
Now, with support of US, It is destroying its neighbors.
You do (or maybe it was CC).
And I've never heard the Palestinians claim to be anything other then a nationality. Please show me an example of Palestinians claiming to be an ethnic group.You do (or maybe it was CC).
"Palestinians" claim all kinds of things, what they claim is neither here nor there. The word "Palestine" actually has its roots in ancient Hebrew - the word “Pelishtim”, meaning literally: “Invaders”.
The self-identified "Palestinians" are not and have never been a nationality, but rather largely historically a nomadic ethnic group, not associated with any particular place in the middle east.
Yes it is. Prove that Palestinians think of themselves as anything more then a nationality.
To the bolded, that hasn't been true for over 1/2 a century.
Hello? What does it MATTER what they "think of themselves as"?? If I "think of" myself as Napoleon, should I be given command of the French army?
You don't know what you're talking about. Eg, the large majority of the population of Jordan are ethnic Hashemites. In fact, Jordan could be considered the REAL "Palestine".
Hello? What does it MATTER what they "think of themselves as"?? If I "think of" myself as Napoleon, should I be given command of the French army?
WTF? No, you're saying that there is no Palestinian ethnicity (correct) and saying that the Palestinians make that claim as opposed to simply using the term in the same way you'd use American to describe your nationality. Ether offer proof or stop trying to throw up a smoke screen hoping everyone will forget what you actually said.
You don't know what you're talking about. Eg, the large majority of the population of Jordan are ethnic Hashemites. In fact, Jordan could be considered the REAL "Palestine".
A large portion of the American population are Anglo-Saxons. They're still Americans. Jordan is Jordan Palestine is Palestine and the Jordanians take great pains to highlight this fact. It's you who seems to be talking out of his ass.
What does THAT have to do with anything??
Uh, nooooooooooo......... Jordan exists, "Palestine" doesn't.
What does THAT have to do with anything??
Stop being stupid.
Uh, nooooooooooo......... Jordan exists, "Palestine" doesn't.
If you say so...
I do not hold a public office senator who has to pussy ju ju bean philosophy...
I do not hold a public office, senator, who has to pussy ju ju bean philosophy...
Truth is bitter.
Those who live in glass houses do not throw stones on others.
The European criminals banished from Europe came to America , exterminated natives of Americas, dragged Africans in chains and used them as slaves to build American infrastructure.
Such people have no room to speak or preach on what is right and wrong.
Just shut up.
Could you be so decent as to do your mental masturbation in private?
I do not hold a public office, senator, who has to pussy ju ju bean philosophy...
Truth is bitter.
Those who live in glass houses do not throw stones on others.
The European criminals banished from Europe came to America , exterminated natives of Americas, dragged Africans in chains and used them as slaves to build American infrastructure.
Such people have no room to speak or preach on what is right and wrong.
Just shut up.
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