Capitalism in the Real World vs. Capitalism in an Ivory Tower

Jun 2011
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The capitalism that true free marketers advocate can be defined as such:

"The free exchange of value, subjectively defined."
Given the coercion in the labour contract, referring to 'free exchange' in capitalism is always going to be dodgy territory (and inconsistent with both economic history and modern economic theory).

Given this definition, the current economic system is not capitalist, and any attempts to label it as such as simply insincere.
There's no denying that the current system is capitalist. The only issue is how firm organisation has evolved and how that has changed the requirements of interventionism (which is required to ensure the reproduction of capitalist profit)

I need not provide more reasons than the fact that the government has a monopoly on currency, and sets interest rates. In this situation, value cannot be subjectively defined, nor can it be freely traded.
Why is the utilisation of such monetary mechanisms used everywhere? Its merely an application of rationality, particularly where market concentration tends to accentuate the consequences of demand-side shocks
 
Aug 2010
92
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NH
Given the coercion in the labour contract, referring to 'free exchange' in capitalism is always going to be dodgy territory (and inconsistent with both economic history and modern economic theory).

Can you elaborate?

There's no denying that the current system is capitalist.

There is, and for the reasons I provided. The question cannot be one of semantics at this stage, because I've defined what I mean by "capitalism".

The current system is predatory and corporatist.

The only issue is how firm organisation has evolved and how that has changed the requirements of interventionism (which is required to ensure the reproduction of capitalist profit)

I think you still need to justify why a free trade of labor for a wage and benefits is coercive.

Why is the utilisation of such monetary mechanisms used everywhere? Its merely an application of rationality, particularly where market concentration tends to accentuate the consequences of demand-side shocks

I think it's a lot simpler than that. The state benefits enormously from controlling the currency.
 
Jun 2011
14
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Can you elaborate?
We could go all Marxist in our analysis, but there's actually no point. We merely have to refer to the existence of economic rents. Such rents assuredly inform us of coercion in the labour contract. This isn't surprising, given labour theory predicts it as the norm: e.g. monoposony power created by labour market frictions; discrimination; hierarchy and the use of internal labour market to magnify underpayments.

There is, and for the reasons I provided. The question cannot be one of semantics at this stage, because I've defined what I mean by "capitalism".

The current system is predatory and corporatist.
Try something like the Penrosian approach to firm growth. This informs us that, unlike the economies of scale approach to the optimal firm in Economics 101, there will always be a tendency for firm growth: both in terms of market share and also in terms of diversification. End result? The profit motive in capitalism will lead to predatory and corporatist outcome. You're basically arguing that capitalism doesn't exist as you find a characteristic of capitalism less than agreeable.

The state benefits enormously from controlling the currency.
So you're going for some conspiracy theory that involves some ruling elite?
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
We could go all Marxist in our analysis, but there's actually no point. We merely have to refer to the existence of economic rents. Such rents assuredly inform us of coercion in the labour contract. This isn't surprising, given labour theory predicts it as the norm: e.g. monoposony power created by labour market frictions; discrimination; hierarchy and the use of internal labour market to magnify underpayments.
There is no coercion just by a person agreeing to work for a wage. I must be misunderstanding what you are trying to say. Also, are you making an argument based on the labor theory of value?
 
Jun 2011
14
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Also, are you making an argument based on the labor theory of value?
Nope. My argument can be used within a neoclassical context. The point is simple: economic rents are inconsistent with a labour contract associated purely by exchange. We know, however, those rents exist. Indeed, we cannot understand the labour market without modelling them (as the examples in my previous post describes)
 
Aug 2010
92
0
NH
We could go all Marxist in our analysis, but there's actually no point. We merely have to refer to the existence of economic rents. Such rents assuredly inform us of coercion in the labour contract. This isn't surprising, given labour theory predicts it as the norm: e.g. monoposony power created by labour market frictions; discrimination; hierarchy and the use of internal labour market to magnify underpayments.

When I meant elaborate, I meant provide an argument for your position, not to restate your position - I understand it.

I define force as violence, or the threat of violence, used to compel individuals to act in a certain way. In what way does force arise when one individual decides, by his own will and voluntary consent, to work for another individuals in exchange for a pre-decided wage?

If you don't think force, as I've defined it, arises in this situation, then please define what you mean by "coercive", and elaborate on that.

Try something like the Penrosian approach to firm growth. This informs us that, unlike the economies of scale approach to the optimal firm in Economics 101, there will always be a tendency for firm growth: both in terms of market share and also in terms of diversification. End result? The profit motive in capitalism will lead to predatory and corporatist outcome. You're basically arguing that capitalism doesn't exist as you find a characteristic of capitalism less than agreeable.

The question isn't whether capitalism leads to predatory and/or corporatist outcomes here, it is whether or not the current system is capitalist. Referring to the definition I provided above, which I suspect most free-market capitalists would agree with, the system cannot be capitalist because of state control on the monetary system. If you're going to ignore that point, that is to conflate rape with love making.

So you're going for some conspiracy theory that involves some ruling elite?

I haven't espoused a theory at all. It is empirically true that the state benefits from controlling the currency. Fiat currency enables the state to grow without bound, because it is no longer restrained by limited tax reserves. Probably the most glaring example of this is the perpetual war the U.S. has willingly put itself in.
 
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