Chuck baldwin

Yep. A real moderate. Just look at his positions.
-He stopped supporting the Republicans because he felt that the Bush-Cheney ticket was too liberal.
-Ran on the ticket for the Alaskan Independence Party (The nuts who want to secede)
-Apparently spoke out against women in the military
-Wants to withdraw from the UN and is against what he views as the new world order. Also seems to be against NATO.
-Against NAFTA
-Against Trans-Texas Corridor (This is a favorite for conspiracy nuts...something about the North American Union)
-Supports 9/11 Truth Movement
-He believes that "the Mexican government is deliberately and systematically working to destabilize and undermine the very fabric and framework of American society."
-He wants to disband the IRS and believes that a 10% tariff would be enough to fund the entire government.
-He wants to return to the gold standard
-He believes "the South was right in the War Between the States" and that participation in the federal government is voluntary.
-He believes that "America was deliberately and distinctively founded as a haven for Christians"
-Wants the 10 commandments displayed on public grounds
-He thinks the FDA is unconstitutional
-He is against mandatory vaccinations (He apparently doesn't understand the concept of herd immunity)
-He wants to disband the Department of Education and encourage homeschooling
-He guarantees to completely end abortion if elected


This is how we define a moderate, right? Something seems a little off.

I actually wouldn't call Bush a moderate. He was a conservative and possibly a member of the religious right. His interviews near the end seemed to suggest that he wasn't as diehard about religion though, so I'm not sure. He might be closer to a fiscal conservative in a way. (This is why I hate labels...nobody fits one perfectly). I'm not sure how it would be liberal to start a war (any war) because liberals usually encompass the ideals of populism and humanism.

This actually does raise a good point though. The terms are getting switched about again. This seems to happen about once every 50 years (Democrats of today are nothing like the original Democrats, for example). Liberal hasn't changed as much (bigger government, socialist leanings, etc). Conservative is starting to mean more of traditional mindset though with positions close to the Reagan government. Their positions on war usually change based on the war though, so I don't think you could ever just form a list.

That actually is a good point about the Republican party. They are leaning away from the good founding of the party and seem to have let the religious right get a hold them. A number of their policies have started to shift to their own form of nanny state. Not good on either side.

Baldwin isn't a moderate though. Moderate would mean straight down the middle. He probably focus on pragmatism and limit dogma associated to his positions.

Baldwin is a libertarian. Nothing wrong with that. It's a political position just as valid as any other. It just means that he is not a moderate.

As far as 9/11, there is a separate thread devoted to that and I'm trying to not derail any more threads here. I'll see you over there in a second.

Their religious coat is just for votes, and a majority of the stuff passed doesn't really negatively effect them economical so they'll take that stance even if it screws over a group of people who's minding their own business (ie. homosexuals, non-extremists etc.).

As for the FDA, while I don't necessarily agree with his views on it, we definitely need to make sure that there is more honesty coming from them as I've read numerous accounts of them passing dangerous stuff as clean and it's not until people die that they decide to pull them out. Whether it's due to dishonesty (bribes etc.) or legitimate mistakes (they might have even been fooled), it's still serious.

Well the biggest problem with the FDA is that a lot of these things don't have effects until months or even years after they are taken. They generally do the best that they can to spot the bad stuff.

A much bigger problem is our lack of oversight in the beef industry (if fast food nation is to be believed).

The Parakeet said:

I actually wouldn't call Bush a moderate. He was a conservative and possibly a member of the religious right. His interviews near the end seemed to suggest that he wasn't as diehard about religion though, so I'm not sure. He might be closer to a fiscal conservative in a way. (This is why I hate labels...nobody fits one perfectly). I'm not sure how it would be liberal to start a war (any war) because liberals usually encompass the ideals of populism and humanism.

This actually does raise a good point though. The terms are getting switched about again. This seems to happen about once every 50 years (Democrats of today are nothing like the original Democrats, for example). Liberal hasn't changed as much (bigger government, socialist leanings, etc). Conservative is starting to mean more of traditional mindset though with positions close to the Reagan government. Their positions on war usually change based on the war though, so I don't think you could ever just form a list.

That actually is a good point about the Republican party. They are leaning away from the good founding of the party and seem to have let the religious right get a hold them. A number of their policies have started to shift to their own form of nanny state. Not good on either side.

Baldwin isn't a moderate though. Moderate would mean straight down the middle. He probably focus on pragmatism and limit dogma associated to his positions.

Baldwin is a libertarian. Nothing wrong with that. It's a political position just as valid as any other. It just means that he is not a moderate.

As far as 9/11, there is a separate thread devoted to that and I'm trying to not derail any more threads here. I'll see you over there in a second.

Click to expand...

Well, I personally think Bush was more liberal. While he was indeed in bed with the religious right, he expanded government more than Clinton ever did. Patriot Act, No Child Left Behind were huge things, especially for a conservative.


I agree with the terms beign switched around but I think (and hope) the right wing will move away from Jerry Falwell dominated mindsets and go back to traditional conservatism.

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stones Cunard (mêlée, final vociferations) tennis… the stones… so calm… Cunard… unfinished…”