For or Against Capital Punishment?

David McHenry · Mar 1, 2010

I'm 100% for it, provided the right guy is frying for the crime. There is nothing worse to me than seeing an innocent person in jail awaiting capital punishment for a crime he/she didn't commit.

Capital Punishment is a great deterrent for heinous crimes against humanity most of the time. The United States is the only Western democracy that allows capital punishment, and the sentence has widespread popular and political support. In a 1997 Time magazine poll, 74 percent of those surveyed said they favor capital punishment for persons convicted of serious crimes.

Dirk · Mar 1, 2010

David McHenry said:
Capital Punishment is a great deterrent

No it isn't. Vengeance just makes you feel good.

Why do we have so many authoritarians on the forum, by the way, myp? I'd always thought Americans were against statism... I figured i'd have allies on the social side.

Seer Travis Truman · Mar 1, 2010

thebossman said:
I think that depending on the country you are living in, capital punishment might indeed by necessary.

It is not neccesary, it is a malevolent and optional societally-sponsered murder.

Mind you, as a law student, I firmly believe that the crime must fit the punishment and there are indeed heinous crimes which deserve nothing other than the death penalty.

You dont have any idea what you are talking about. Society has no legitimate business to morally judge or punish any criminal. The whole thing is illogical. The so-called reasoning is to "respond" in kind. That is just stupid.

However, having said that, I think that life imprisonment in certain circumstances (e.g. without parole, with hard labour etc.) might actually be worse than the death penalty as the prisoner is undergoing punishment over the rest of his natural life for his crime.

There is no legitimate reason why any criminal should be punished for his behaviour.

So I think this is a very strange issue to debate. On the one hand I would argue that the death penalty is actually the EASY way out for many criminals, but strangely it appears that for political reasons death sentence is a very sensitive issue.

The death penalty is carried out to assuage the suppressed rage and hate that mainstream citizen-slaves have in their core True Reality.

In my country we still have the death penalty, but for "rarest of rare cases" (e.g. in crimes that are so heinous and lacking all extenuating circumstances that the court is compelled to determine that the continued existence of the criminal is a danger to society.

This statement is pure garbage. You just presume a few basic things are Truths,where in fact they are malevolent lies. Your entire basis is false.

Seer Travis Truman · Mar 1, 2010

Zakalwe said:
Ahh. I see. Because you have no argument to the contrary you resort to a personal attack. I've dealt with trolls like you before. Do not presume to know me, or to lecture me on my morals, values or other.

I dont presume, I know that those who support legal murder are utterly deranged, malevolent and immoral.

Its not a personal attack, it is the Truth. Your stated claims as to why you support the DP are false, they are against all the current facts. I state My case as being that you have non-reason based motivations for supporting the DP.

The reason I am for these things is because of the way things used to be, and the way they are now. That is the truth of my statement.

Then your statement contains no legitimate Truth. Just demented lies disguised as Truth. The idea of "way things used to be" is false on many counts.

1. You cannot show the causation between the DP and TWTUTB.
2. In days of old, there used to be far more serious punishments and DP and there was also high crime.
3. You wrongly presume that the reason why modern society is experiencing so many problems is because of lack of punishments.
4. You wrongly presume that society has any right to punish or morally judge any individual.

Seer Travis Truman · Mar 1, 2010

David McHenry said:
I'm 100% for it, provided the right guy is frying for the crime. There is nothing worse to me than seeing an innocent person in jail awaiting capital punishment for a crime he/she didn't commit.

It does not matter what crime was committed, the DP is still utterly unnecessary , immoral, lie-based, malevolent and deranged. There can never be a "right" person being brutally murdered by the very same utterly malevolent society that created him.

Capital Punishment is a great deterrent for heinous crimes against humanity most of the time.

No it is not. All the evidence suggest otherwise.

The United States is the only Western democracy that allows capital punishment, and the sentence has widespread popular and political support. In a 1997 Time magazine poll, 74 percent of those surveyed said they favor capital punishment for persons convicted of serious crimes.

That only proves how murderous and enraged the citizen-slaves are. popularity is not a form of justification or reason.

David · Mar 1, 2010

Dirk said:
No it isn't. Vengeance just makes you feel good.

Why do we have so many authoritarians on the forum, by the way, myp? I'd always thought Americans were against statism... I figured i'd have allies on the social side.

Let me put it this way, horse robbery is still punishable by hanging.

Dirk · Mar 1, 2010

David said:
Let me put it this way, horse robbery is still punishable by hanging.

Really?

To be entirely fair, I was comparatively naive, when I came to the forums.

Not much has changed, but i've gathered that much now (and developed my own ideas a little further).

deanhills · Mar 4, 2010

Seer Travis Truman said:
It does not matter what crime was committed, the DP is still utterly unnecessary , immoral, lie-based, malevolent and deranged. There can never be a "right" person being brutally murdered by the very same utterly malevolent society that created him.

Strong words, but I like where you are going with this. I don't think a wrong can ever make another "wrong" right. Taking a life is wrong.

Seer Travis Truman · Mar 4, 2010

deanhills said:
Strong words, but I like where you are going with this. I don't think a wrong can ever make another "wrong" right. Taking a life is wrong.

The words used are not strong enough. No word exists in the english language to even begin to describe how genocidally deranged and malevolent the punishment of criminals really is in Truth.

deanhills · Mar 28, 2010

Seer Travis Truman said:
The words used are not strong enough. No word exists in the english language to even begin to describe how genocidally deranged and malevolent the punishment of criminals really is in Truth.

I agree with that. The English language is a language of duplicity. Words don't really say what they mean, and can be pulled into any direction, rendering truth impossible.

SpayAndNeuterLibs · Mar 28, 2010

I voted that I was for capital punishment. That being said I'm not one of those eye for an eye individuals. [FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica] "An Eye For An Eye" [FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica] Deuteronomy [FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica] 19:21 "And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot." I don't consider myself to be a religious person. Besides my understanding of the bible is that the whole eye for an eye thing was suppose to be the old law before the execution of Jesus. Further my understanding was that under the old law we were required to adhere to the law of an eye for an eye. After the crucifixion[FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica] of Jesus, were under the new law according to the new testament. And according to the new testament the eye for an eye, is not required, but allowed. At least that's my limited understanding of it from a christian religious view point. If my understanding of this is incorrect, don't be shy let me know. I'm not easily offended.

That being said, I support the death penalty for the worse of offenders. Examples would be,

1. Child Murderers
Especially when there is a sexual assault involved. John Evander Couey who repeatedly raped and murdered 9 year old Jessica Lunsford in 2005. If you want to read about this truly tragic event click on the above link.

2. Murder of any kind other then manslaughter, should qualify, but not be mandated.

3. I know this will be very controversial, but here goes. The worst of sexual predators, probably not first offenders, but repeat offenders. Only the worse of offenders though, especially when the sexual offender shows an unusually high degree of brutality and inhumanity. That co-insides with a lack of will or inability to rehabilitate.

deanhills · Mar 28, 2010

SpayAndNeuterLibs said:
[FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]That being said, I support the death penalty for the worse of offenders. Examples would be,

[FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]1. Child Murderers
[FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]Especially when there is a sexual assault involved. John Evander Couey who repeatedly raped and murdered 9 year old Jessica Lunsford in 2005. If you want to read about this truly tragic event click on the above link.

2. Murder of any kind other then manslaughter, should qualify, but not be mandated.

3. I know this will be very controversial, but here goes. The worst of sexual predators, probably not first offenders, but repeat offenders. Only the worse of offenders though, especially when the sexual offender shows an unusually high degree of brutality and inhumanity. That co-insides with a lack of will or inability to rehabilitate.

Problem is, people have to "judge" whether someone is guilty of a murder or not. And those people are equally fallible to the person who stands accused of murder. Those who judge can make mistakes as well. Punishing someone with death is just another form of revenge by society, and is not teaching anyone to improve their behaviour, just to perpetuate the taking of lives.

SpayAndNeuterLibs · Mar 28, 2010

deanhills said:
Problem is, people have to "judge" whether someone is guilty of a murder or not. And those people are equally fallible to the person who stands accused of murder. Those who judge can make mistakes as well. Punishing someone with death is just another form of revenge by society, and is not teaching anyone to improve their behaviour, just to perpetuate the taking of lives.

I understand your view point, but surly you can see that some simply refuse to better themselves. These become a drain on society, and when these individuals commit the worse of the worst offenses like murder and rape. The death penalty should not be taken off the table, but never be made a required punishment. Why should we warehouse them? Just to be clear on my above post. I would suggest that beyond a reasonable doubt that co-insides with witnesses and forensic evidence should be reason enough for capital punishment.

deanhills · Mar 30, 2010

SpayAndNeuterLibs said:
I understand your view point, but surly you can see that some simply refuse to better themselves.

I don't think punishment has ever really contributed to betterment of people. If punishment is used and people do respond to the punishment, that is mere avoidance of punishment, than being focussed on betterment of themselves.

Pappadave · Aug 7, 2010

I have major problems with either system. Why not a third alternative? If a sociopath shows by his actions and deeds a complete disregard for society, exclude him from it. Put him in his own jungle and let him live or die by the laws of the jungle. simple to do, little cost. This was done in other times and in different cultures and it works. Pappadave.

obtuseobserver · Aug 11, 2010

Delta said:
I just had this discussion with a few of my friends the other day... whether we were for or against capital punishment.

One of my friends said that he's against it because being put in prison for life is the worst punishment anyone could have.

If that was true people on death row wouldn't try to have sentences commuted to life.

Anyway, for it.

deanhills said:
I don't think punishment has ever really contributed to betterment of people.

It does better "the people" by segregating them from the law breaker.

It may or may not better the felon. However, that is not our concern. It is his duty not to break the law not the duty of the state to help him find ways not to.

savdad · Aug 18, 2010

In order for a society to function laws have to be instituted and followed. However, evolution is necessary. A people cannot and must not operate under designated laws which hinder the advancement and strike at the very core of the purpose of said society. Society labels murder. A form of justice cannot include and carry out the very thing it seeks to end.

AK_ID · Aug 18, 2010

Delta said:
I just had this discussion with a few of my friends the other day... whether we were for or against capital punishment.

One of my friends said that he's against it because being put in prison for life is the worst punishment anyone could have. I disagree with this - a lot of the times murderers etc. don't serve their full sentence and get off on parole. They get free room, free meals, free education, etc.

For me, I think if someone kills someone, they should be sentenced to death in the same way they murdered the person. None of this, "we're going to peacefully kill you with an injection." If you want to knife someone and let them bleed out, then you get knifed and bled out.

We're far too easy on our criminals.

If there is proof of guilt in a heinous crime, and especially with today's DNA evidence capability, I say fry 'em.

obtuseobserver · Aug 18, 2010

savdad said:
In order for a society to function laws have to be instituted and followed. However, evolution is necessary. A people cannot and must not operate under designated laws which hinder the advancement and strike at the very core of the purpose of said society. Society labels murder. A form of justice cannot include and carry out the very thing it seeks to end.

That's only true if you co-opt the defintion of murder.

Execution is not murder. Some who oppose the DP change the defintion of the word to suit their argument.

If we are permitted to that then we can come up with all kinds of neat stuff.

As Lionel Hutz once said, "Ohhhh that judge has had it out for me since I kinda ran over his dog...... if you substitute repeatedly for kinda and son for dog."

Murder, at common law, is the unlawful killing of a human with malice aforethought.

Execution is without malice and is legal.

California Penal Code 187

Though you will certainly disagree from a philosophical POV if we get to redefine words so they fit our arguments we really are left with silliness, not an argument.

It is much more intellectually honest to say that you do not believe that the DP is approapriate than to justify it through sophistry. It is not a hard sell.

Interestingly enough, I was opposed to the DP before I worked in a DAs office working on homicide prosecutions. Some people commit sufficiently heinous acts that it insults the victim's memory to permit their killer to remain alive.

Gunny · Aug 29, 2010

I am absolutely for the death penalty.

A lot of those opposed to capital punishment say that being put to death is not punishment and that spending the rest of your life in prison is more severe.

I couldn't disagree more. Being allowed three squares a day, exercise, sleep whenever you want, working out, etc... is not punishment.

For or Against Capital Punishment?

For or Against Capital Punishment?

For

Against

Undecided/No Comment

David McHenry

Dirk

Seer Travis Truman

Seer Travis Truman

Seer Travis Truman

David

Dirk

deanhills

Seer Travis Truman

deanhills

SpayAndNeuterLibs

deanhills

SpayAndNeuterLibs

deanhills

Pappadave

obtuseobserver

savdad

AK_ID

obtuseobserver

Gunny

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