foreshadowing of what is to come?

arcturus88 · Oct 22, 2013

http://www.theguardian.com/world/barack-obama

Barack Obama admitted that technical problems had overshadowed his historic reforms to the US healthcare system, acknowledging on Monday that the gateway website "stank" and was a gift to political opponents.
With his flagship domestic policy achievement in serious danger of being eclipsed by the three-week IT disaster, the president tried to shore up support for the wider effort to provide affordable healthcare for millions of uninsured Americans by stressing alternative ways to access so-called insurance marketplaces.
But in the most candid admission yet that website glitches were preventing many from signing up, Obama confirmed that a team of outside experts had been brought in over recent days to try to tackle the problem.
"There's no sugar-coating it," Obama said in a speech in the White House Rose Garden. "No one is madder than me that this is not working, which means it is going to get fixed."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/barack-obamahttp://www.theguardian.com/world/barack-obamahttp://www.theguardian.com/world/barack-obama

Obama concedes 'no excuse' for healthcare website glitches | World news | The Guardian

one of the arguments against "obamacare" is that big government inevitably makes things chunky, more expensive and less efficient. is this just the beginning?

arcturus88 · Oct 23, 2013

i understand that the website is being run by a canada company with a squirrely reputation. why not give it to an american company? you know, to creat jobs and what-not.

David · Oct 23, 2013

arcturus88 said:
i understand that the website is being run by a canada company with a squirrely reputation. why not give it to an american company? you know, to creat jobs and what-not.

With the state of our education system, they're might not be anyone in America TO do it. At least not for as cheap as the gov't wants.

Kyuubi · Nov 2, 2013

Honestly.... I think the IT disaster that's Obamacare is nothing short of a direct result of the idiocy that encompassed it's making. Obama was big on bold promises that rational people knew were so overblown they couldn't realistically be committed and many of his promises on the ACA are no exception. Not to mention you could also pin the mess on republicans failing to determine a viable alternative plan with detail and the democrats partisan rush to slam the thing down into the law books without taking leisure to make it solid.

The whole talking point that government can't do this stuff right.... may indeed be true, but at the end of the day... I'm more inclined to stick with the correlation between cause and effect, which we can more objectively measure now that the law is in implementation.

Half of the country voted him in like a rock star on these kinds of promises, and we re elected him, therefore, I suppose that as bad as he is for the country we get what we voted for and we face the consequences for better or worst

David · Nov 3, 2013

Kyuubi said:
Honestly.... I think the IT disaster that's Obamacare is nothing short of a direct result of the idiocy that encompassed it's making. Obama was big on bold promises that rational people knew were so overblown they couldn't realistically be committed and many of his promises on the ACA are no exception. Not to mention you could also pin the mess on republicans failing to determine a viable alternative plan with detail and the democrats partisan rush to slam the thing down into the law books without taking leisure to make it solid.

The whole talking point that government can't do this stuff right.... may indeed be true, but at the end of the day... I'm more inclined to stick with the correlation between cause and effect, which we can more objectively measure now that the law is in implementation.

Half of the country voted him in like a rock star on these kinds of promises, and we re elected him, therefore, I suppose that as bad as he is for the country we get what we voted for and we face the consequences for better or worst

The thing bout the ACA is it's essentially the republican answer to Hillarycare, the Republicans didn't have an alt idea because this was their alt idea. Had moderates (aka sane people) been calling the shots in the House, they'd of worked out the bugs with the Dems and we've have a working system right now. As it was, the Republicans just answered every idea Obama had with "No, u!" and having no alt of their own (again, because this was their idea in the 1st place), the Democrats passed an imperfect bill. The blame for this mess rests entirely on the TP and their stupidity.

Kyuubi · Nov 3, 2013

David said:
The thing bout the ACA is it's essentially the republican answer to Hillarycare, the Republicans didn't have an alt idea because this was their alt idea.

You mean this was Romney's "alternative idea"... The ACA was modeled after it afterall... I haven't studied the success or failure of "Romneycare", but the ACA clearly isn't going well with it's implementation, and "imperfect" doesn't describe the bill. Obama made repeated bold promises he couldn't keep, and while you might blame republicans and tea partiers for being no help Obama should have been aware of the basic limitations of the laws' scope of control. The law's writing made it VERY difficult to maintain "grandfather" status and a small change to a grandfathered policy is enough to require compliance to the new regulations. Effectively speaking, the policies that the law establishes are set up to become the norm for the whole industry irrespective of the older plans many people wanted to keep. And while coverage might improve for many, it'll also get more expensive.... Plus why am I having to pay for maternity in my coverage? Do they expect men to suddenly have babies?

David said:
The blame for this mess rests entirely on the TP and their stupidity.

The only way you can place 100% blame on those guys is if you ignore all of the rush, and all of the "out of this world" promises the democrats made for the the bill. Sure, they deserve some blame, but you are ignoring how democrats made all of these fantastic promises and continue to tout it in the face of people being dropped from their current plans, and having no way to sign up for the alternative that democrats fashioned out. That's quite leap from simply being "imperfect" if this situation gets protracted.

arcturus88 · Nov 3, 2013

David said:
As it was, the Republicans just answered every idea Obama had with "No, u!" and having no alt of their own (again, because this was their idea in the 1st place), the Democrats passed an imperfect bill. The blame for this mess rests entirely on the TP and their stupidity.

that is quite a stretch.

Romney's idea was implemented small scale and he even voiced that it should not be implemented at the national level (it would be too big, and inefficient). We see this happening at the very first baby step of the implementation. the first day...6 signed up. Imagine when it starts getting complicated...like the process of actually getting healthcare.:cry:

That said I get the desire of democrats to distance themselves, but it will be kind of difficult given their not so distant zealous approach.

"This is F*cking Big!!" - Joe Biden

yes it is Mr. Biden...yes it is. Far too big.

David · Nov 3, 2013

arcturus88 said:
that is quite a stretch.

Romney's idea was implemented small scale and he even voiced that it should not be implemented at the national level (it would be too big, and inefficient). We see this happening at the very first baby step of the implementation. the first day...6 signed up. Imagine when it starts getting complicated...like the process of actually getting healthcare.:cry:

That said I get the desire of democrats to distance themselves, but it will be kind of difficult given their not so distant zealous approach.

"This is F*cking Big!!" - Joe Biden

yes it is Mr. Biden...yes it is. Far too big.

Hardly. Had the Republicans sat down, listed the faults you've noted then offered solutions, whatever they may have been, we'd of eventually ended up with a bill both sides could live with. The Democrats were willing, the Republicans just obstructed. The result? The then totally Democratic controlled Congress passed a bill with no Republican input. The 1 sided nature of the bill and the resulting issues that have resulted IS ABSOLUTELY THE FAULT OF TPERS. This entire issue exists only because they chose to obstruct rather than negotiate.

David · Nov 4, 2013

Aufgeblassen said:
There is nothing to negotiate; take-over of 19% of the economy is wrong, WRONG, WRONG!!!

I'd love you to cite this. Go on, I'm waiting...

David · Nov 4, 2013

Aufgeblassen said:
One cannot cite one's self. Besides, you already cited me.

But there is a massive amount of quotes here from our Founding Fathers proving that government takeover of private entity is strictly contrary to their intentions of full liberty (not just partial liberty):

Quotes from founding fathers regarding limited government

EDUCATED YOURSELF!!!
Maybe even go over it several times, until it sinks in...

Thought so. Go find your rain, scarecrow, then post.

David · Nov 4, 2013

Aufgeblassen said:
Just as I suspected, you'd fail to come up with anything that remotely contradicts the basic truisms that I presented.

Ya... Come back with something to back up that 19% BS or just shut the hell up. Still haven't found your brain I see.

David · Nov 4, 2013

Aufgeblassen said:
So you are splitting hairs about the actual percentage???

Regardless of what it actually is, I have first hand exerience withe socialized medicine, and it is bad news. I doubt you have any. So you shouldn't blabber about something you no nothing about.

I accept your surrender. Now keep looking for your Keys.

arcturus88 · Nov 4, 2013

David said:
Hardly. Had the Republicans sat down, listed the faults you've noted then offered solutions, whatever they may have been, we'd of eventually ended up with a bill both sides could live with. The Democrats were willing, the Republicans just obstructed. The result? The then totally Democratic controlled Congress passed a bill with no Republican input. The 1 sided nature of the bill and the resulting issues that have resulted IS ABSOLUTELY THE FAULT OF TPERS. This entire issue exists only because they chose to obstruct rather than negotiate.

what motivation would a democratic controlled congress (who had enough votes to pass whatever they wanted) have to negotiate? they had all the cards and they knew it and proceeded to shove it down America's throat; while expecting no consequences.

its like the little kid building a sand castle near the waves and older brother suggests its a bad idea. when inevitably the waves crash and destroy the castle, the little kid exclaims to his big brother, "Hey! this is your fault, you didn't help me!"

tecoyah · Nov 5, 2013

arcturus88 said:
what motivation would a democratic controlled congress (who had enough votes to pass whatever they wanted) have to negotiate? they had all the cards and they knew it and proceeded to shove it down America's throat; while expecting no consequences.

its like the little kid building a sand castle near the waves and older brother suggests its a bad idea. when inevitably the waves crash and destroy the castle, the little kid exclaims to his big brother, "Hey! this is your fault, you didn't help me!"

Regardless of the motivating factors, they did indeed request input from the right and based the majority of the bill on recommendations from them from past bills put forth by them. There actually was a back and forth during the crafting of this legislation which eliminated the single payer options, yet the Tea Party contingent seems to have ended these negotiations mid stream.

David · Nov 5, 2013

Aufgeblassen said:
The only thing that was needed, was to find a way to insure the uninsured. A massively huge bill was not needed. Everybody else should have been left intact.

So the coverage doughnut hole in medicare/caid and the pre-existing BS didn't need to be fixed? Those 2 issues accounted for almost 1/2 of the uninsured, they needed to be dealt with. Regardless, the whole thing was a mess the moment they killed the single payer. Lining the pockets of Big Insurance should have never been a consideration, never mind the driving force, behind healthcare reform.

tecoyah · Nov 5, 2013

Aufgeblassen said:
The only thing that was needed, was to find a way to insure the uninsured. A massively huge bill was not needed. Everybody else should have been left intact.

Perhaps you could explain to everyone the "Easy" and simplified way it should have been done?

David · Nov 5, 2013

You're playing the Token Black Guy Card, really? :giggle:

tecoyah · Nov 5, 2013

I see...so you do not like the solutions presented, and thus whine about it, have no alternative, and rely on talking points developed by others to make your points for you.

Powerful stuff you got going there...you should be a politician.

David · Nov 5, 2013

Aufgeblassen said:
No, but you are obviously playing the RACE CARD.

No, you played the race card (probably thinking a black person somehow made your argument look better) and I called you on it.

tecoyah · Nov 5, 2013

Aufgeblassen said:
No, but you are obviously playing the RACE CARD.

One would hope you can manage the scroll bar well enough to note where the race aspect of this discussion began. Should this be an inaccurate assumption the alternative is even worse for you.