How can you believe in entitlement

youngconservatives · Jan 6, 2013

I have a question for anyone who supports the left ideology.

How can you possibly support any form of entitlement? How can you think that it's right that some of us work and pay taxes while others don't seem to have to?

Real question. Let's debate.

David · Jan 6, 2013

youngconservatives said:
I have a question for anyone who supports the left ideology.

How can you possibly support any form of entitlement? How can you think that it's right that some of us work and pay taxes while others don't seem to have to?

Real question. Let's debate.

What 'entitlements' are you talking about and American or Canadian?

myp · Jan 6, 2013

Hmm... believing in entitlement is not synonymous with some having to work and be taxed while others don't...

I don't consider myself a leftist or a rightist, by the way.

David · Jan 6, 2013

myp said:
Hmm... believing in entitlement is not synonymous with some having to work and be taxed while others don't...

I don't consider myself a leftist or a rightist, by the way.

That's why I asked for clarification. So many people say entitlements when they mean payouts to taxpayers for the investments they've made.

myp · Jan 6, 2013

David said:
That's why I asked for clarification. So many people say entitlements when they mean payouts to taxpayers for the investments they've made.

I think I was making my post when you published yours- it wasn't there when I first hit respond. But yea...

tecoyah · Jan 7, 2013

In many cases the term "Entitlement" does little to forward this debate....no one is Entitled to anything. A compassionate social structure however, seems to me a good and needed part of any advanced culture.

bluefig · Jan 10, 2013

This is an example of how people who refuse to define themselves or terms lead to a lack of communication. For instance, to refuse to accept that terms such as "entitlement programs" possess real meanings in our world is to shut down debate. Of course, I understand that may be the point.

Entitlement programs are also referred to as welfare programs. In the U.S. they include: Social Security, SSI Disability, Food Stamps, Welfare for single mothers, Medicare, Medicaid, the Obamaphone program, and Obamacare. All of these programs take money from the income of workers and redistribute that wealth (a Socialist term) to those who do not work. Many reasonable people consider this an unfair arrangement. I agree that it is an unfair arrangement.

myp · Jan 10, 2013

bluefig said:
This is an example of how people who refuse to define themselves or terms lead to a lack of communication. For instance, to refuse to accept that terms such as "entitlement programs" possess real meanings in our world is to shut down debate. Of course, I understand that may be the point.

People in different countries and even within countries define entitlements differently so your point is wrong... David was asking for clarity knowing that the Canadian definition might be different. You can't expect people to read your mind and know what exactly you mean when you say something...

tecoyah · Jan 10, 2013

youngconservatives said:
I have a question for anyone who supports the left ideology.

How can you possibly support any form of entitlement? How can you think that it's right that some of us work and pay taxes while others don't seem to have to?

Real question. Let's debate.

Please clarify a few things, otherwise debate is not productive.
1) Define entitlement in your understanding?
2) Does one need think something is "Right", to see it as needed?
3) By using the term "Seem", are you stating your basic premise is weak, or based on undefined Data?

chris7375 · Jan 10, 2013

tecoyah said:
Please clarify a few things, otherwise debate is not productive.
1) Define entitlement in your understanding?
2) Does one need think something is "Right", to see it as needed?
3) By using the term "Seem", are you stating your basic premise is weak, or based on undefined Data?

To me the word entitlement is the wrong word to use. I would have use dependency. In reality those programs are not entitlements. We don't think we should get them (well at least a majority of us don't think that).

Though that is just me.

tecoyah · Jan 10, 2013

chris7375 said:
To me the word entitlement is the wrong word to use. I would have use dependency. In reality those programs are not entitlements. We don't think we should get them (well at least a majority of us don't think that).

Though that is just me.

And....I would agree.

chris7375 · Jan 10, 2013

youngconservatives said:
I have a question for anyone who supports the left ideology.

How can you possibly support any form of entitlement? How can you think that it's right that some of us work and pay taxes while others don't seem to have to?

Real question. Let's debate.

I believe the word entitlement is the wrong word to use. The program I believe you are referring too are more dependency programs.

What I mean by this is that they create a dependency for some people and that is what they depend on to make it through rather then work.

I am for all the programs under a certain amount of government control.

Meaning I believe these programs should only be used by a certain group.

Social Security should remain for those who retire. Welfare, Food Stamps should also remain for the use of the retired people. Medicare should remain for those who are retired.

Now for the rest of us who can use some of those programs and become dependent on them. I believe Charities should handle those capable of working rather then the government. The Charities would help make a person productive again where as the government fails to do that with their programs.

tecoyah · Jan 10, 2013

In 2011 there were more than 70 federal means-tested welfare programs, which cost more than $900 billion, including state spending. In the same year charities were at about $300 billion, so to make up the difference we would need to spend 2/3 less on social support.

We simply could not make up the difference without removing much from the retired. This is a primary reason Government support programs are very difficult to cut, they are beloved by too many.

"The federal government spent $952 billion in 2007 on elderly benefits, up from $601 billion in 2000. It's the biggest function of the federal government. States chipped in $27 billion more in 2007, mostly for nursing homes."
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20080214/1a_lede14_dom.art.htm

chris7375 · Jan 10, 2013

tecoyah said:
In 2011 there were more than 70 federal means-tested welfare programs, which cost more than $900 billion, including state spending. In the same year charities were at about $300 billion, so to make up the difference we would need to spend 2/3 less on social support.

We simply could not make up the difference without removing much from the retired. This is a primary reason Government support programs are very difficult to cut, they are beloved by too many.

"The federal government spent $952 billion in 2007 on elderly benefits, up from $601 billion in 2000. It's the biggest function of the federal government. States chipped in $27 billion more in 2007, mostly for nursing homes."
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20080214/1a_lede14_dom.art.htm

I know the retired community cost have gone up. Working in Healthcare for so many years I was able to watch it grow especially from my position.

The problem tends to be that Healthcare over charges these programs when in reality they should be giving discounts to these programs.

HCA, Tenet and a few other have all had cases brought against them for what they charge. Though O-care will only add to this burden.

Though in reality what I did and what I saw would boggle the mind. Hospitals truly cheat in a big way.

tecoyah · Jan 10, 2013

chris7375 said:
I know the retired community cost have gone up. Working in Healthcare for so many years I was able to watch it grow especially from my position.

The problem tends to be that Healthcare over charges these programs when in reality they should be giving discounts to these programs.

HCA, Tenet and a few other have all had cases brought against them for what they charge. Though O-care will only add to this burden.

Though in reality what I did and what I saw would boggle the mind. Hospitals truly cheat in a big way.

My wife is the charge nurse for our biggest hospital...I hear stories that make me sick. However, even she agrees with the cuts included in the ACA that could lessen the mess.

chris7375 · Jan 10, 2013

tecoyah said:
My wife is the charge nurse for our biggest hospital...I hear stories that make me sick. However, even she agrees with the cuts included in the ACA that could lessen the mess.

I know the current rating system though I believe it is good does hurt hospital incomes. This rating system bases a Hospitals compensation on their rating. The lower the rating the lower Medicare pays.

How can you believe in entitlement

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