how to defeat radical islam?

arcturus88 · Jan 20, 2016

Christianity, according to Richard Dawkins.

According to him, the teachings which have been outlined in the Bible and conveyed by Jesus do not promote or encourage violence. It also does not lead to suicide bombings being attempted. Therefore, Dawkins now feels that Christianity might be the best defense for people if they would like to win the war against radical Islam.

Atheist Richard Dawkins: Christianity Has the Power to Defeat Radical Islam - World Religion News

tecoyah · Jan 20, 2016

Religion in general has been fading as science becomes more advanced and prominent. In time (much more of it) religion will no longer be accepted as a useful basis for living...only then will Islam be defeated.

tecoyah · Jan 31, 2016

I do not remember any Christians in Star Trek either...no wonder its so damn cool.

No Freakin' Religions....makes sense.

David · Jan 31, 2016

reason10 said:
Star Trek gives us the answer.

Nowhere in all the series are there any Muslims. Not on any of the Enterprises. That's because Star Trek is in the future.

So you feel communism is the destiny of humanity? :giggle:

tecoyah said:
I do not remember any Christians in Star Trek either...no wonder its so damn cool.

No Freakin' Religions....makes sense.

That's not true though. There were many religions present but excluding holidays religion (at least for the humans) was a total non-issue not worth mentioning. Picard was an atheist but grew up in a staunchly catholic family and I'm pretty sure Riker was some sort of protestant (as was Kirk).

The aliens on the other hand practically shoved religion down everyone's throats every week but they were totally fictional so didn't push anyone's sectarian buttons.

arcturus88 · May 19, 2016

Another airplane down. Likely a bomb.

It's probably one of those radical Christian groups that did it.

EgyptAir Flight 804: Terror weighed in plane's disappearance - CNN.com

tecoyah · May 19, 2016

It is absolutely clear to anyone who is not Islamic that it poses a threat more that anything outside of itself....and often to those within it. The backward facing violent mentality leads me to avoid any and everyone who professes it automatically. This can be seen as profiling, and indeed it is. Thing is...Muslims have created it themselves, and it seems that was their intent.

If you make it obvious you do not like me and threaten violence...what the hell do you expect.

David · May 19, 2016

tecoyah said:
It is absolutely clear to anyone who is not Islamic that it poses a threat more that anything outside of itself....and often to those within it. The backward facing violent mentality leads me to avoid any and everyone who professes it automatically. This can be seen as profiling, and indeed it is. Thing is...Muslims have created it themselves, and it seems that was their intent.

If you make it obvious you do not like me and threaten violence...what the hell do you expect.

I have to disagree with this. If you read the Quran in a contemporary historical context (unlike the Torah and Gospels the thing was actually written by Muhammad himself) the violent passages become tied to wartime and thus situational. Brutal to be sure but it was the 7th century. The Hadiths on the other hand were written AFTER he died and have a suspicious tendency to justify the ruling order of the time. If you reject them as political rather than theological works, Islam becomes a mostly peaceful religion with guidelines for how a pious Muslim should conduct themselves in war.

Islamists reject the above and are very much the threat you claim them to be. That said, most (and by most, I'm talking ~80%) Muslims agree with my interpretation of the Quran and a not insignificant minority also agree with my rejection of the Hadiths. Islam isn't the problem, the primitive tribals living in the Mideast are the problem. It's a distinction that really needs to be made when 90% of the Muslim population is living on the other side of the world in Indochina.

I blame the wide perception in the West that Arab = Muslim for this confusion. It'd be hilarious if it didn't marginalize the world's 2nd largest and fastest growing religion. That's 1B+ people being needlessly demonized and that's not something I can condone as a moral person.

tecoyah · May 19, 2016

David said:
I have to disagree with this. If you read the Quran in a contemporary historical context (unlike the Torah and Gospels the thing was actually written by Muhammad himself) the violent passages become tied to wartime and thus situational. Brutal to be sure but it was the 7th century. The Hadiths on the other hand were written AFTER he died and have a suspicious tendency to justify the ruling order of the time. If you reject them as political rather than theological works, Islam becomes a mostly peaceful religion with guidelines for how a pious Muslim should conduct themselves in war.

Islamists reject the above and are very much the threat you claim them to be. That said, most (and by most, I'm talking ~80%) Muslims agree with my interpretation of the Quran and a not insignificant minority also agree with my rejection of the Hadiths. Islam isn't the problem, the primitive tribals living in the Mideast are the problem. It's a distinction that really needs to be made when 90% of the Muslim population is living on the other side of the world in Indochina.

I blame the wide perception in the West that Arab = Muslim for this confusion. It'd be hilarious if it didn't marginalize the world's 2nd largest and fastest growing religion. That's 1B+ people being needlessly demonized and that's not something I can condone as a moral person.

I do not care (and neither do extremists) what the Qu'ran was meant to say...nor do I care for ANY silly manmade God. What I do care about is this little thing we call reality and what is tells me everyday. It says that I cannot tell a nice Muslim from one who wants to kill me and mine because of some sky fairy and political BS. Thus I am left to either take my chances and possibly let my life and that of those I cherish be damaged or destroyed, or I can do as I think wise and stay away from the risk completely.
I have read the book (though English translation is poor) and do find it to be pleasant poetic reading...even somewhat inspiring. Regardless it can be twisted just as the Bible(s) can, the difference being that Christians do not regularly kill people for their God. They suck nevertheless but, do so by trying to legislate their hateful biased opinions.

David · May 19, 2016

tecoyah said:
I do not care (and neither do extremists) what the Qu'ran was meant to say...nor do I care for ANY silly manmade God. What I do care about is this little thing we call reality and what is tells me everyday. It says that I cannot tell a nice Muslim from one who wants to kill me and mine because of some sky fairy and political BS. Thus I am left to either take my chances and possibly let my life and that of those I cherish be damaged or destroyed, or I can do as I think wise and stay away from the risk completely.
I have read the book (though English translation is poor) and do find it to be pleasant poetic reading...even somewhat inspiring. Regardless it can be twisted just as the Bible(s) can, the difference being that Christians do not regularly kill people for their God. They suck nevertheless but, do so by trying to legislate their hateful biased opinions.

Well then, I'd like to point out that all of the Paris attackers were Frenchmen save 1. He was Belgian. Are you going to live in fear of everyone you meet in the street until/unless they declare themselves not to be Muslim? Are you willing to risk them lying? Unless you're ready to take up the life of a hermit that's no way to live. You tell the nice Muslims from the ones trying to kill you the same way you would anyone else: noting who's actually trying to kill you.

Keep the Arabs at bay and you need not fear a Muslim anymore than anyone else.

tecoyah · May 19, 2016

David said:
Well then, I'd like to point out that all of the Paris attackers were Frenchmen save 1. He was Belgian. Are you going to live in fear of everyone you meet in the street until/unless they declare themselves not to be Muslim? Are you willing to risk them lying? Unless you're ready to take up the life of a hermit that's no way to live. You tell the nice Muslims from the ones trying to kill you the same way you would anyone else: noting who's actually trying to kill you.

Keep the Arabs at bay and you need not fear a Muslim anymore than anyone else.

I do avoid middle eastern people, and the one benefit of Islam would be that it often requires certain clothing that makes adherents clear. I tend to avoid ME men because of the ways they treat women and the general culture. My life is far from a hermitage and yet I do choose who to befriend of be around.

Feel free to call it fear, it partially is. For some reason I do not wish to subject myself or my family to risk or unpleasant people.

David · May 19, 2016

tecoyah said:
I do avoid middle eastern people, and the one benefit of Islam would be that it often requires certain clothing that makes adherents clear. I tend to avoid ME men because of the ways they treat women and the general culture. My life is far from a hermitage and yet I do choose who to befriend of be around.

Feel free to call it fear, it partially is. For some reason I do not wish to subject myself or my family to risk or unpleasant people.

The bolded is my point. You're unlikely to recognize a typical American Muslim because they're just like typical American Christians: Anglo-Americans who enjoy football and fast food. The American Islamic community is indigenous unlike Europe. They don't where any special cloths, they don't speak a foreign language and their diets aren't any more remarkable than a Jew's. Going to 'church' on Friday is the only thing that will give them away. Even immigrant Muslims are mostly Persians, not Arabs. The Arab diaspora in America is largely limited to Iraqi refugees from the '90s and their families. Worry about Islamists and Arabs, (especially the tribal ones) not Muslims because that is where the threat lies.

arcturus88 · May 20, 2016

This country is not Arab, it is Asian.
Islam is the problem, not the ethnicity.

For liberal sensibilities, blaming an ethnicity is racist. blaming an ideology that is evil and overtly violent is, well, smart.

Brunei adopts sharia law amid international outcry - CNN.com

The Islamic criminal law is set to include punishments such as flogging, dismemberment and death by stoning for crimes such as rape, adultery and sodomy. The religious laws will operate alongside the existing civil penal code.

David · May 20, 2016

arcturus88 said:
This country is not Arab, it is Asian.
Islam is the problem, not the ethnicity.

For liberal sensibilities, blaming an ethnicity is racist. blaming an ideology that is evil and overtly violent is, well, smart.

Brunei adopts sharia law amid international outcry - CNN.com

An act that has 0 local or international support and has been criticized by everyone. The problem is a man (such is the way of absolute monarchies), not a religion or a people. If that's the best you can come up with, it's pretty weak.

arcturus88 · May 20, 2016

David said:
An act that has 0 local or international support and has been criticized by everyone. The problem is a man (such is the way of absolute monarchies), not a religion or a people. If that's the best you can come up with, it's pretty weak.

weak example? maybe, but it doesn't have to be a strong one to refute this weak (and frankly racist) claim...

Worry about Islamists and Arabs, (especially the tribal ones) not Muslims because that is where the threat lies.

don't forget Pakistan (not all arab) and boko haram (african, not arab).

David · May 20, 2016

arcturus88 said:
weak example? maybe, but it doesn't have to be a strong one to refute this weak (and frankly racist) claim...

don't forget Pakistan (not all arab) and boko haram (african, not arab).

Pakistan is simply a failed state, and an organization called 'Western Education Is Bad' speaks for itself.

arcturus88 · May 20, 2016

David said:
Pakistan is simply a failed state, and an organization called 'Western Education Is Bad' speaks for itself.

in other words, its the ideology driving it, not the ethnicity.

arcturus88 · May 20, 2016

David said:
I have to disagree with this. If you read the Quran in a contemporary historical context (unlike the Torah and Gospels the thing was actually written by Muhammad himself) the violent passages become tied to wartime and thus situational. Brutal to be sure but it was the 7th century. The Hadiths on the other hand were written AFTER he died and have a suspicious tendency to justify the ruling order of the time. If you reject them as political rather than theological works, Islam becomes a mostly peaceful religion with guidelines for how a pious Muslim should conduct themselves in war.

Islamists reject the above and are very much the threat you claim them to be. That said, most (and by most, I'm talking ~80%) Muslims agree with my interpretation of the Quran and a not insignificant minority also agree with my rejection of the Hadiths.

http://politicalfray.com/religion/5713-abrogation-quran.html#post61066

Classical scholars argued that anyone who studied the Qur'an without having mastered the doctrine of abrogation would be "deficient."Those who do not accept abrogation fall outside the mainstream and, perhaps, even the religion itself.

tecoyah · May 20, 2016

arcturus88 said:
in other words, its the ideology driving it, not the ethnicity.

When the ideology instructs the ethnicity and culture....it is BOTH. Thus do I freely admit to being biased against or Bigoted if you prefer toward Islam and Middle Eastern peoples in general. That's just the way it is based on both my personal experience and world affairs.

arcturus88 · May 20, 2016

tecoyah said:
When the ideology instructs the ethnicity and culture....it is BOTH. Thus do I freely admit to being biased against or Bigoted if you prefer toward Islam and Middle Eastern peoples in general. That's just the way it is based on both my personal experience and world affairs.

i agree. A culture that readily accepts and propagates the poison shares the blame. I'm just highlighting some liberal cognitive dissonance for sport.

David · May 20, 2016

arcturus88 said:
in other words, its the ideology driving it, not the ethnicity.

And yet American Muslims (mostly Anglo-Americans) live out their lives totally unnoticed by you or anyone else who doesn't personally know them. Same religion as the nuts in the Mideast, different culture.

how to defeat radical islam?

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