Hunger Strikes

Jun 2012
134
0
Turkey
In 66 Turkish prisons a total of 683 prisoners are on a hunger strike for the 52nd day today.

The figures were given by Turkish Justice Minister Sadullah Ergin in his joint press conference with German Justice Minister Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger on Oct. 31. Actually, 64 of them have been on strike for that long, others have joined them along the way, according to Hürriyet Daily News accounts.
(...)
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/hu...ssure.aspx?pageID=449&nID=33778&NewsCatID=409

Should there be a forced medical intervention ? People keep saying that would be ''unethical''. But I don't think like that. According to the constitution, state is responsıble for the healtcare of prisoners. But if them really willing to die...
 
Jul 2009
5,893
474
Port St. Lucie
In 66 Turkish prisons a total of 683 prisoners are on a hunger strike for the 52nd day today.

The figures were given by Turkish Justice Minister Sadullah Ergin in his joint press conference with German Justice Minister Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger on Oct. 31. Actually, 64 of them have been on strike for that long, others have joined them along the way, according to Hürriyet Daily News accounts.
(...)
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/hu...ssure.aspx?pageID=449&nID=33778&NewsCatID=409

Should there be a forced medical intervention ? People keep saying that would be ''unethical''. But I don't think like that. According to the constitution, state is responsıble for the healtcare of prisoners. But if them really willing to die...

I never understood the whole thing about prisoner welfare. They're criminals or worse, let them rot.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
Prison is not meant to be a nice place....if they would rather be dead, so be it.
 
Jul 2009
5,893
474
Port St. Lucie
Just to clarify my earlier point, I'm not advocating torture and the like. I'm just saying if prisoners want to off themselves or a death row inmate has a heart attack, keeping them alive and comfortable is just stupid.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
They are not starving because a cruel prison personnel is starving them, the simply choose not to eat aside from sugar water and vitamins. It is nobody's fault but their own. If they just eat they would be fine.
 
Jun 2012
134
0
Turkey
Yes, they have a political agenda for these actions. They have various demands to end this. One of them is defending themself in the Kurdish language in court. However it's already something legal and possıble but depends on the Judge's decision, just like any other foreign language.

And the second one is lifting of isolations on Ocalan who founded the PKK terrorist organization.


By the way, they decided that when the health of strikers come to a critical point, forced medical intervention will take place.
 
Apr 2009
1,943
5
Disunited Queendom
Just to clarify my earlier point, I'm not advocating torture and the like. I'm just saying if prisoners want to off themselves or a death row inmate has a heart attack, keeping them alive and comfortable is just stupid.

I disagree in the strongest sense. Besides the fact that I disagree with the Death Penalty, I think that it would allow criminals to escape justice - see Göring - and in less extreme cases, prevent possible rehabilitation in the future.
 
Jul 2009
5,893
474
Port St. Lucie
I disagree in the strongest sense. Besides the fact that I disagree with the Death Penalty, I think that it would allow criminals to escape justice - see Göring - and in less extreme cases, prevent possible rehabilitation in the future.

Less extreme crimes wouldn't involve the death penalty or life in prison ;).
 
Apr 2009
1,943
5
Disunited Queendom
Less extreme crimes wouldn't involve the death penalty or life in prison ;).

I'm pretty sure that crimes less drastic than involvement in the systematic genocide of over six million Jews (estimated 5.7 million at time of sentencing), the murder of political opponents, illegal occupation of half of Europe, etc, carry the death penalty (in the US).
 
Jul 2009
5,893
474
Port St. Lucie
I'm pretty sure that crimes less drastic than involvement in the systematic genocide of over six million Jews (estimated 5.7 million at time of sentencing), the murder of political opponents, illegal occupation of half of Europe, etc, carry the death penalty (in the US).

When it comes to murder, hostage taking, etc, scale doesn't really matter. They call such criminals worst of the worst for a reason, kill 'em all.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
In my opinion, if a society wishes to become stable, grow, and benefit the people who define it...there are some elements that cannot exist within it. The society itself will self police to maintain this stability...or it will collapse.

This may create a need for extreme measures at times, similar to surgically removing a tumor. The cancer will inevitably destroy the body, thus it must go.
 
Apr 2009
1,943
5
Disunited Queendom
In my opinion, if a society wishes to become stable, grow, and benefit the people who define it...there are some elements that cannot exist within it. The society itself will self police to maintain this stability...or it will collapse.

This may create a need for extreme measures at times, similar to surgically removing a tumor. The cancer will inevitably destroy the body, thus it must go.

I won't play that game - I'm not comfortable with comparing human life to a tumor.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
I respect Chomsky, feel his opinions carry weight...and yet I have no reason to interfere with Turkish Government decisions.

Partially because I am uninformed.
Partially because I want what democracy they have to succeed.

If we allowed our own prison population to dictate conditions...what would be the point of prison?

It was never intended to be a pleasant experience...perhaps one might consider the place before doing anything stupid (according to the society), in the future.

If they wish to starve over a freakin' view, quality of food, of the color of underwear....so be it.
 
Jun 2012
134
0
Turkey
If we allowed our own prison population to dictate conditions...what would be the point of prison?

They haven't gt prisoner mentality. According to them certainly the only reason of their conviction is their etnich origin and they want everybody to accept this ilusion as they believe.Chomsky is implying same things too. But to be honest, they are successful at influencing government with these protests, strikes etc.
 
Dec 2012
121
5
space
They haven't gt prisoner mentality. According to them certainly the only reason of their conviction is their etnich origin and they want everybody to accept this ilusion as they believe.Chomsky is implying same things too. But to be honest, they are successful at influencing government with these protests, strikes etc.

you know we dont seperate them from other turkish citizens and they are regarded as turk by our constitution but we are damned by the civilized west for killing innocent kurds!.
 
Aug 2010
211
12
Reynoldsburg, OH
reader, tecoyah, David, clax, Dirk, et al,

Sometimes, I think we lose sight of what a "Prisoner Hunger Strike" really is; and its implications.

... ... ...But to be honest, they are successful at influencing government with these protests, strikes etc.
(COMMENT-Generalities)

In such events, there is always a "demand." The demand is either implicit or explicit, but it is always there. (Freedom, Publicity, Notoriety/Fame, Tangibles, etc)

The prisoner adopts a persona. They are a hero, maryr, or generally undeserving of the sentence (an innocent or desperate), etc.

The hunger strike is generally a combination of blackmail, hostage and threat.
  • Given me "X" or I'll do "Y!"
When my oldest child was young, she would sometimes ask for something. On rare occasions, when I would deny her request, she would scream and then hold her breath until I capitulated. She was pretty good, and would sometimes hold it long enough to turn blue.​

In the case of most "Prisoner Hunger Strikes," the prisoner becomes both the blackmailer and the hostage with the threat:

  • Given me what I demand or I'll kill the hostage (himself).

This is not unlike my daughter holding her breath.

In a "Prisoner Hunger Strike," the government has to make some decisions. In a normal hostage case, the Government would want to free the hostage from danger. This normally kicks-off a negotiation between the government and the hostage taker; with the first question being: What do you want? (The Demand.)

In a "Prisoner Hunger Strike" the weapon is food and the trigger is self denial.

  • Given me my freedom or I'll starve the hostage (himself).

Given that you cannot free the hostage, what do you (The Government) have to consider?

  • Do you have a policy to negotiate?
  • What is the probability that the threat will be executed?
  • What impact will the execution of the threat have?
    • How will the law bidding taxpayer view capitulation 'v' status quo?
    • What will the general prison population think? Will it inspire more strikes?
  • Are the demands reasonable?
    • What does the cost 'v' benefit analysis conclude?
    • What precedent does capitulation set?
    • What dangers does the capitulation present?

Simultaneously, there is an investigation concerning the allegations made by the Prisoner. This is a moral obligation to determine if in fact, the demands are actually needed for health, safety or other rational concerns.

Make no mistake, there are cases (few though they may be) when, the demands might actually improve the health and safety of the prisoner population and staff. But there is also the need to be demonstrably human in the treatment of prisoners.

In terms of a medical intervention in a sour "Prisoner Hunger Strike," this has to be carefully considered and the reasoning (for and against) logically documented. This cannot be a subjective decision in the eyes of either the taxpayer or the prison population. The policy must be straight forward, very clear and understood by all.

There is no one single correct answer to the question of a "Prisoner Hunger Strike" and how to handle them. They each must be evaluated individually.

But remember what a "Prisoner Hunger Strike" really is: a combination of blackmail, hostage and threat. And if believable, gives you some insight into the persona of the inmate.

Is there a specific case you are considering?

Most Respectfully,
R
 
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